{
    "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1",
    "id": "plato.euthydemus",
    "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/euthydemus/reference-274/",
    "language": "en",
    "title": "Euthydemus",
    "author": "Plato",
    "date": "c. 390-370 BCE",
    "summary": "Socrates recounts an encounter in which Euthydemus and Dionysodorus overwhelm a young man with verbal refutations. The dialogue opposes eristic victory to an educational search for knowledge capable of making life flourish.",
    "learning": "Recognize several eristic devices, distinguish refutation from education, and follow the unfinished search for governing knowledge.",
    "long_summary": "The brothers exploit ambiguity and shifting meanings to prove a proposition and its opposite. Between performances Socrates leads Cleinias through inquiry into goodness, right use of resources, and the knowledge that might govern other crafts.\n\nComedy does more than ridicule opponents. It forces a distinction between logical form and pedagogical intention. Socratic inquiry itself remains incomplete, preventing a ready-made dogma from simply being opposed to eristic games.",
    "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.",
    "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE",
    "material_world": {
        "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.",
        "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.",
        "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.",
        "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.",
        "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.",
        "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.",
        "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
    },
    "material_world_scenes": [
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp",
            "title": "Technology, science, and care",
            "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp",
            "title": "Travel and communication",
            "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp",
            "title": "Farming and food",
            "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp",
            "title": "Clothing, women and men",
            "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
        }
    ],
    "intellectual_tradition": {
        "id": "platonism",
        "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought"
    },
    "period": {
        "id": "ancient",
        "label": "Antiquity"
    },
    "languages": [
        "grc",
        "en",
        "fr"
    ],
    "manifestations": [
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/grc.ndjson",
            "language": "grc",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "original",
            "sha256": "4f7558b1d8ae55300cf2d2200374f18ed227905f1cd21e77642c1bcd8d6a63d8",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/en.ndjson",
            "language": "en",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "a955ece52ab894425168006ea543f60bbdc41ba35ad404cf0084b1c165991eb7",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/fr.ndjson",
            "language": "fr",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "eb2544b59eff5cef057c18339c80f1c15fc90e276c1fa337da88f2a5431e6a3e",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01"
        }
    ],
    "concepts": [
        {
            "id": "beneficence",
            "label": "Beneficence"
        },
        {
            "id": "care_of_soul",
            "label": "Care of the soul"
        },
        {
            "id": "desire",
            "label": "Desire"
        },
        {
            "id": "dialectic",
            "label": "Dialectic"
        },
        {
            "id": "education",
            "label": "Education"
        },
        {
            "id": "ether_field",
            "label": "Ether and field"
        },
        {
            "id": "family",
            "label": "Family"
        },
        {
            "id": "forgiveness",
            "label": "Forgiveness"
        },
        {
            "id": "forms",
            "label": "Intelligible forms"
        },
        {
            "id": "friendship",
            "label": "Friendship"
        },
        {
            "id": "god",
            "label": "God"
        },
        {
            "id": "impressions_and_assent",
            "label": "Impressions and assent"
        },
        {
            "id": "justice",
            "label": "Justice"
        },
        {
            "id": "knowledge",
            "label": "Knowledge"
        },
        {
            "id": "love",
            "label": "Love"
        },
        {
            "id": "mercy",
            "label": "Mercy"
        },
        {
            "id": "messiah",
            "label": "Messiah"
        },
        {
            "id": "mindfulness",
            "label": "Mindfulness"
        },
        {
            "id": "prayer",
            "label": "Prayer"
        },
        {
            "id": "sin",
            "label": "Sin"
        },
        {
            "id": "time",
            "label": "Time"
        },
        {
            "id": "truth",
            "label": "Truth"
        },
        {
            "id": "virtue",
            "label": "Virtue"
        },
        {
            "id": "war_and_peace",
            "label": "War and peace"
        },
        {
            "id": "wisdom",
            "label": "Wisdom"
        }
    ],
    "source_work_ids": [
        "plato.euthydemus"
    ],
    "passages": 37,
    "word_count": 17127,
    "word_counts_by_language": {
        "en": 17127,
        "fr": 14987,
        "grc": 12576
    },
    "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1",
    "structure": {
        "citation_scheme": "plato-stephanus-page-v1",
        "kind": "native",
        "levels": [
            {
                "key": "stephanus_page",
                "label_fr": "Page Stephanus",
                "label_en": "Stephanus page"
            }
        ],
        "leaf_fr": "Passage",
        "leaf_en": "Passage"
    },
    "canonical_passage_id": "passage:plato.euthydemus:274",
    "canonical_ref": "274",
    "canonical_parent_ref": null,
    "canonical_parent_id": null,
    "representations": [
        {
            "language": "grc",
            "text": "ΣΩ. εἰ δὲ νῦν ἀληθῶς ταύτην τὴν ἐπιστήμην ἔχετον, ἵλεω εἶτον—ἀτεχνῶς γὰρ ἔγωγε σφὼ ὥσπερ θεὼ προσαγορεύω, συγγνώμην δεόμενος ἔχειν μοι τῶν ἔμπροσθεν εἰρημένων. ἀλλʼ ὁρᾶτον, ὦ Εὐθύδημέ τε καὶ Διονυσόδωρε, εἰ ἀληθῆ λέγετον· ὑπὸ γὰρ τοῦ μεγέθους τοῦ ἐπαγγέλματος οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν ἀπιστεῖν. ἀλλʼ εὖ ἴσθι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφατον, τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχον. μακαρίζω ἄρʼ ὑμᾶς ἔγωγε τοῦ κτήματος πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ μέγαν βασιλέα τῆς ἀρχῆς· τοσόνδε δέ μοι εἴπετον, εἰ ἐν νῷ ἔχετον ἐπιδεικνύναι ταύτην τὴν σοφίαν, ἢ πῶς σφῷν βεβούλευται. ἐπʼ αὐτό γε τοῦτο πάρεσμεν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὡς ἐπιδείξοντε καὶ διδάξοντε, ἐάν τις ἐθέλῃ μανθάνειν. ἀλλʼ ὅτι μὲν ἐθελήσουσιν ἅπαντες οἱ μὴ ἔχοντες, ἐγὼ ὑμῖν ἐγγυῶμαι, πρῶτος μὲν ἐγώ, ἔπειτα δὲ Κλεινίας οὑτοσί, πρὸς δʼ ἡμῖν Κτήσιππός τε ὅδε καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι οὗτοι, ἦν δʼ ἐγὼ δεικνὺς αὐτῷ τοὺς ἐραστὰς τοὺς Κλεινίου· οἱ δὲ ἐτύγχανον ἡμᾶς ἤδη περιιστάμενοι. ὁ γὰρ Κτήσιππος ἔτυχε πόρρω καθεζόμενος τοῦ Κλεινίου—κἀμοὶ δοκεῖν ὡς ἐτύγχανεν ὁ Εὐθύδημος ἐμοὶ διαλεγόμενος προνενευκὼς εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν, ἐν μέσῳ ὄντος ἡμῶν τοῦ Κλεινίου ἐπεσκότει τῷ Κτησίππῳ τῆς θέας—βουλόμενός τε οὖν θεάσασθαι ὁ Κτήσιππος τὰ παιδικὰ καὶ ἅμα φιλήκοος ὢν ἀναπηδήσας πρῶτος προσέστη ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ καταντικρύ· οὕτως οὖν καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι ἐκεῖνον ἰδόντες περιέστησαν ἡμᾶς, οἵ τε τοῦ Κλεινίου ἐρασταὶ καὶ οἱ τοῦ Εὐθυδήμου τε καὶ Διονυσοδώρου ἑταῖροι. τούτους δὴ ἐγὼ δεικνὺς ἔλεγον τῷ Εὐθυδήμῳ ὅτι πάντες ἕτοιμοι εἶεν μανθάνειν· ὅ τε οὖν Κτήσιππος συνέφη μάλα προθύμως καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι, καὶ ἐκέλευον αὐτὼ κοινῇ πάντες ἐπιδείξασθαι τὴν δύναμιν τῆς σοφίας. εἶπον οὖν ἐγώ· ὦ Εὐθύδημε καὶ Διονυσόδωρε, πάνυ μὲν οὖν παντὶ τρόπῳ καὶ τούτοις χαρίσασθον καὶ ἐμοῦ ἕνεκα ἐπιδείξασθον. τὰ μὲν οὖν πλεῖστα δῆλον ὅτι οὐκ ὀλίγον ἔργον ἐπιδεῖξαι· τόδε δέ μοι εἴπετον, πότερον πεπεισμένον ἤδη ὡς χρὴ παρʼ ὑμῶν μανθάνειν δύναισθʼ ἂν ἀγαθὸν ποιῆσαι ἄνδρα μόνον, ἢ καὶ ἐκεῖνον τὸν μήπω πεπεισμένον διὰ τὸ μὴ οἴεσθαι ὅλως τὸ πρᾶγμα τὴν ἀρετὴν μαθητὸν εἶναι ἢ μὴ σφὼ εἶναι αὐτῆς διδασκάλω; φέρε, καὶ τὸν οὕτως ἔχοντα τῆς αὐτῆς τέχνης ἔργον πεῖσαι ὡς καὶ διδακτὸν ἡ ἀρετὴ καὶ οὗτοι ὑμεῖς ἐστὲ παρʼ ὧν ἂν κάλλιστά τις αὐτὸ μάθοι, ἢ ἄλλης; ταύτης μὲν οὖν, ἔφη, τῆς αὐτῆς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁ Διονυσόδωρος.",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc",
            "translation_type": "original"
        },
        {
            "language": "en",
            "text": "Soc. But if you now in truth possess this other knowledge, have mercy—you see I address you just as though you were a couple of gods, beseeching you to forgive my former remarks. But make sure, Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, that you spoke the truth: for the vastness of your promise gives me some excuse for disbelieving. You may be sure, Socrates, they replied, it is as we say. Then I congratulate you on your acquisition far more than I do the great king on his empire: only tell me whether you intend to exhibit this science of yours, or what you have determined to do. We are here for the very purpose, Socrates, of exhibiting and expounding it to anyone who wishes to learn. Well, I guarantee that all who do not possess it will wish to—myself to begin with, then Cleinias here and, besides us, Ctesippus and all these others, I said, showing him the lovers of Cleinias, who were by this time standing about us. For Ctesippus, as it happened, was sitting some way from Cleinias, I noticed; and by chance, as Euthydemus leant forward in talking to me he obscured Ctesipus’ view of Cleinias, who was between us. Then Ctesippus, desiring to gaze on his favorite and being also an eager listener, led the way by jumping up and placing himself opposite us; and this made the others, on seeing what he did, stand around us, both Cleinias’ lovers and the followers of Euthydemus and Dionysodorus. Pointing to these, I told Euthydemus that they were all ready to learn; to which Ctesippus assented with great eagerness, and so did the rest; and they all joined in urging the two men to exhibit the power of their wisdom. On this I remarked: My good Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, you must do your very best to gratify my friends and, for my sake also, to give us an exhibition. To do it in full, of course, would obviously be a lengthy performance: but tell me one thing—will you be able to make a good man of him only who is already convinced that he should learn of you, or of him also who is not yet so convinced, owing to an absolute disbelief that virtue is a thing that can be learnt or that you are teachers of it? Come now, is it the business of this same art to persuade such a man that virtue is teachable and that you are the men of whom one may best learn it, or does this need some other art? No, this same one can do it, Socrates, said Dionysodorus.",
            "translator": "Benjamin Jowett",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        },
        {
            "language": "fr",
            "text": "[274a] d’avoir parlé de vous comme je l’ai fait. Mais voyez bien, Euthydème et toi Dionysodore, si ce que vous dites est vrai, et ne trouvez pas étrange que la grandeur de vos promesses me rende un peu incrédule. — Sois bien sûr, Socrate, reprirent-ils, que nous n’avons rien dit qui ne soit vrai. — En ce cas, je vous tiens plus heureux que le grand roi avec sa puissance ; mais dites-moi, avez-vous dessein d’enseigner cette science, ou quelle est votre intention ? — Nous ne sommes venus ici [274b] que pour l’enseigner à ceux qui voudront l’apprendre. — Je vous réponds que tous ceux qui l’ignorent voudront la connaître, moi d’abord, et Clinias, et Ctésippe, et enfin tous ceux que vous voyez ici. Et je leur montrais les amans de Clinias, qui déjà nous avaient entourés ; car il faut te dire que Ctésippe s’était d’abord assis fort au-dessous de Clinias ; mais comme Euthydème se penchait en me parlant, [274c] il cachait, je crois, à Ctésippe Clinias qui était entre nous deux, et le privait de cette agréable vue, ce qui obligea Ctésippe à se lever et à se placer vis-à-vis de nous pour voir son ami, et entendre en même temps la conversation ; aussitôt les autres amans de Clinias et les amis d’Euthydème et de Dioriysodore en firent autant et nous environnèrent. Les montrant donc du doigt, j’assurai Euthydème qu’il n’y en avait pas là un seul qui n’eût la volonté [274d] de le prendre pour maître. Ctésippe s’y engagea vivement ; tous les autres en firent de même, et le prièrent tout d’une voix de leur découvrir le secret de son art. Alors m’adressant à Euthydème et à Dionysodore, Il faut bien, leur dis-je, satisfaire ces jeunes gens, et je joins mes prières aux leurs. Or il y a beaucoup de choses qui seraient trop longues à expliquer ; mais, dites-moi, celui qui est persuadé qu’il doit apprendre la vertu auprès de vous, est-il le seul que vous puissiez rendre [274e] vertueux, ou bien pouvez-vous l’enseigner aussi à celui qui n’en est pas persuadé, parce qu’il doute que la vertu puisse s’apprendre ? Dites, pouvez-vous aussi prouver, à qui pense ainsi, que la vertu peut être enseignée et que vous êtes les plus propres à le faire ? — Nous le pouvons également, Socrate, répondit Dionysodore. — Il n’y a donc personne au monde,",
            "translator": "Victor Cousin",
            "edition": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        }
    ],
    "content_checksum": "c827c42da42a803ffa0c4c65aa2c12cd4e79ab9e2e40c881ad181b3cc816c13f"
}