{
    "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1",
    "id": "plato.euthydemus",
    "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/euthydemus/reference-295/",
    "language": "en",
    "title": "Euthydemus",
    "author": "Plato",
    "date": "c. 390-370 BCE",
    "summary": "Socrates recounts an encounter in which Euthydemus and Dionysodorus overwhelm a young man with verbal refutations. The dialogue opposes eristic victory to an educational search for knowledge capable of making life flourish.",
    "learning": "Recognize several eristic devices, distinguish refutation from education, and follow the unfinished search for governing knowledge.",
    "long_summary": "The brothers exploit ambiguity and shifting meanings to prove a proposition and its opposite. Between performances Socrates leads Cleinias through inquiry into goodness, right use of resources, and the knowledge that might govern other crafts.\n\nComedy does more than ridicule opponents. It forces a distinction between logical form and pedagogical intention. Socratic inquiry itself remains incomplete, preventing a ready-made dogma from simply being opposed to eristic games.",
    "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.",
    "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE",
    "material_world": {
        "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.",
        "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.",
        "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.",
        "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.",
        "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.",
        "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.",
        "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
    },
    "material_world_scenes": [
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp",
            "title": "Technology, science, and care",
            "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp",
            "title": "Travel and communication",
            "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp",
            "title": "Farming and food",
            "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp",
            "title": "Clothing, women and men",
            "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
        }
    ],
    "intellectual_tradition": {
        "id": "platonism",
        "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought"
    },
    "period": {
        "id": "ancient",
        "label": "Antiquity"
    },
    "languages": [
        "grc",
        "en",
        "fr"
    ],
    "manifestations": [
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/grc.ndjson",
            "language": "grc",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "original",
            "sha256": "4f7558b1d8ae55300cf2d2200374f18ed227905f1cd21e77642c1bcd8d6a63d8",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/en.ndjson",
            "language": "en",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "a955ece52ab894425168006ea543f60bbdc41ba35ad404cf0084b1c165991eb7",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/euthydemus/representations/fr.ndjson",
            "language": "fr",
            "records": 37,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "eb2544b59eff5cef057c18339c80f1c15fc90e276c1fa337da88f2a5431e6a3e",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01"
        }
    ],
    "concepts": [
        {
            "id": "anger",
            "label": "Anger"
        },
        {
            "id": "care_of_soul",
            "label": "Care of the soul"
        },
        {
            "id": "dialectic",
            "label": "Dialectic"
        },
        {
            "id": "elenchus",
            "label": "Elenchus"
        },
        {
            "id": "faith",
            "label": "Faith"
        },
        {
            "id": "family",
            "label": "Family"
        },
        {
            "id": "fear",
            "label": "Fear"
        },
        {
            "id": "forms",
            "label": "Intelligible forms"
        },
        {
            "id": "hope",
            "label": "Hope"
        },
        {
            "id": "human_wisdom",
            "label": "Human wisdom"
        },
        {
            "id": "impressions_and_assent",
            "label": "Impressions and assent"
        },
        {
            "id": "justice",
            "label": "Justice"
        },
        {
            "id": "justice_and_care",
            "label": "Justice and care for the vulnerable"
        },
        {
            "id": "knowledge",
            "label": "Knowledge"
        },
        {
            "id": "law",
            "label": "Law"
        },
        {
            "id": "memory",
            "label": "Memory"
        },
        {
            "id": "messiah",
            "label": "Messiah"
        },
        {
            "id": "mindfulness",
            "label": "Mindfulness"
        },
        {
            "id": "philosophical_eros",
            "label": "Philosophical eros"
        },
        {
            "id": "reason",
            "label": "Reason"
        },
        {
            "id": "sin",
            "label": "Sin"
        },
        {
            "id": "spirit",
            "label": "Spirit"
        },
        {
            "id": "war_and_peace",
            "label": "War and peace"
        },
        {
            "id": "wisdom",
            "label": "Wisdom"
        }
    ],
    "source_work_ids": [
        "plato.euthydemus"
    ],
    "passages": 37,
    "word_count": 17127,
    "word_counts_by_language": {
        "en": 17127,
        "fr": 14987,
        "grc": 12576
    },
    "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1",
    "structure": {
        "citation_scheme": "plato-stephanus-page-v1",
        "kind": "native",
        "levels": [
            {
                "key": "stephanus_page",
                "label_fr": "Page Stephanus",
                "label_en": "Stephanus page"
            }
        ],
        "leaf_fr": "Passage",
        "leaf_en": "Passage"
    },
    "canonical_passage_id": "passage:plato.euthydemus:295",
    "canonical_ref": "295",
    "canonical_parent_ref": null,
    "canonical_parent_id": null,
    "representations": [
        {
            "language": "grc",
            "text": "ΣΩ. καὶ ἡμῖν μὲν ἄπιστον ἐδόκει τὸ πρᾶγμα εἶναι· ὁ δʼ Εὐθύδημος, ἀπιστεῖς, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες; πλήν γʼ ὅτι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἰκὸς ὑμᾶς ἐστι σοφοὺς εἶναι. ἀλλʼ ἤν, ἔφη, ἐθελήσῃς μοι ἀποκρίνεσθαι, ἐγὼ ἐπιδείξω καὶ σὲ ταῦτα τὰ θαυμαστὰ ὁμολογοῦντα. ἀλλὰ μήν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἥδιστα ταῦτα ἐξελέγχομαι. εἰ γάρ τοι λέληθα ἐμαυτὸν σοφὸς ὤν, σὺ δὲ τοῦτο ἐπιδείξεις ὡς πάντα ἐπίσταμαι καὶ ἀεί, τί μεῖζον ἕρμαιον αὐτοῦ ἂν εὕροιμι ἐν παντὶ τῷ βίῳ; ἀποκρίνου δή, ἔφη. ὡς ἀποκρινουμένου ἐρώτα. ἆρʼ οὖν, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐπιστήμων του εἶ ἢ οὔ; —ἔγωγε.— πότερον οὖν ᾧ ἐπιστήμων εἶ, τούτῳ καὶ ἐπίστασαι, ἢ ἄλλῳ τῳ; —ὧι ἐπιστήμων. οἶμαι γάρ σε τὴν ψυχὴν λέγειν· ἢ οὐ τοῦτο λέγεις; οὐκ αἰσχύνῃ, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες; ἐρωτώμενος ἀντερωτᾷς; εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· ἀλλὰ πῶς ποιῶ; οὕτω γὰρ ποιήσω ὅπως ἂν σὺ κελεύῃς. ὅταν μὴ εἰδῶ ὅτι ἐρωτᾷς, κελεύεις με ὅμως ἀποκρίνεσθαι, ἀλλὰ μὴ ἐπανερέσθαι; ὑπολαμβάνεις γὰρ δήπου τι, ἔφη, ὃ λέγω; ἔγωγε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ. πρὸς τοῦτο τοίνυν ἀποκρίνου ὃ ὑπολαμβάνεις. τί οὖν, ἔφην, ἂν σὺ μὲν ἄλλῃ ἐρωτᾷς διανοούμενος, ἐγὼ δὲ ἄλλῃ ὑπολάβω, ἔπειτα πρὸς τοῦτο ἀποκρίνωμαι, ἐξαρκεῖ σοι ἐὰν μηδὲν πρὸς ἔπος ἀποκρίνωμαι; ἔμοιγε, ἦ δʼ ὅς· οὐ μέντοι σοί γε, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι. οὐ τοίνυν μὰ Δία ἀποκρινοῦμαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρότερον πρὶν ἂν πύθωμαι. οὐκ ἀποκρινῇ, ἔφη, πρὸς ἃ ἂν ἀεὶ ὑπολαμβάνῃς, ὅτι ἔχων φλυαρεῖς καὶ ἀρχαιότερος εἶ τοῦ δέοντος. κἀγὼ ἔγνων αὐτὸν ὅτι μοι χαλεπαίνοι διαστέλλοντι τὰ λεγόμενα, βουλόμενός με θηρεῦσαι τὰ ὀνόματα περιστήσας. ἀνεμνήσθην οὖν τοῦ Κόννου, ὅτι μοι κἀκεῖνος χαλεπαίνει ἑκάστοτε ὅταν αὐτῷ μὴ ὑπείκω, ἔπειτά μου ἧττον ἐπιμελεῖται ὡς ἀμαθοῦς ὄντος· ἐπεὶ δὲ οὖν διενενοήμην καὶ παρὰ τοῦτον φοιτᾶν, ᾠήθην δεῖν ὑπείκειν, μή με σκαιὸν ἡγησάμενος φοιτητὴν μὴ προσδέχοιτο. εἶπον οὖν· ἀλλʼ εἰ δοκεῖ σοι, Εὐθύδημε, οὕτω ποιεῖν, ποιητέον· σὺ γὰρ πάντως που κάλλιον ἐπίστασαι διαλέγεσθαι ἢ ἐγώ, τέχνην ἔχων ἰδιώτου ἀνθρώπου. ἐρώτα οὖν πάλιν ἐξ ἀρχῆς. ἀποκρίνου δή, ἔφη, πάλιν, πότερον ἐπίστασαί τῳ ἃ ἐπίστασαι, ἢ οὔ; —ἔγωγε, ἔφην, τῇ γε ψυχῇ.",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-grc",
            "translation_type": "original"
        },
        {
            "language": "en",
            "text": "Soc. Now, to us the thing seemed incredible: then Euthydemus said: You do not believe it, Socrates? I will only say, I replied, that you must indeed be clever. Why, he said, if you will consent to answer me, I will propound that you too admit these surprising facts. Oh, I am only too glad, I replied, to be refuted in the matter. For if I am not aware of my own cleverness, and you are going to show me that I know everything always, what greater stroke of luck than this could befall me in all my living days? Then answer me, he said. Ask: I am ready to answer. Well then, Socrates, he asked, have you knowledge of something, or not? I have. And tell me, do you know with that whereby you have knowledge, or with something else? With that whereby I have knowledge: I think you mean the soul, or is not that your meaning? Are you not ashamed, Socrates, he said, to ask a question on your side when you are being questioned? Very well, I said: but how am I to proceed? I will do just as you bid me. When I cannot tell what you are asking, is it your order that I answer all the same, without asking a question upon it? Why, he replied, you surely conceive some meaning in what I say? I do, I replied. Answer then to the meaning you conceive to be in my words. Well, I said, if you ask a question with a different meaning in your mind from that which I conceive, and I answer to the latter, are you content I should answer nothing to the point? For my part, he replied, I shall be content: you, however, will not, so far as I can see. Then I declare I shall not answer, I said, before I get it right. You refuse to answer, he said, to the meaning you conceive in each case, because you will go on driveling, you hopeless old dotard! Here I perceived he was annoyed with me for distinguishing between the phrases used, when he wanted to entrap me in his verbal snares. So I remembered Connus, how he too is annoyed with me whenever I do not give in to him, with the result that he now takes less trouble over me as being a stupid person. So being minded to take lessons from this new teacher, I decided that I had better give in, lest he should take me for a blockhead and not admit me to his classes. So I said: Well, if you think fit, Euthydemus, to proceed thus, we must do so; in any case I suppose you understand debating better than I do—you are versed in the method, and I am but a layman. Begin your questions, then, over again. Now, answer me once more, he said: do you know what you know by means of something, or not? I do, I replied; by means of my soul.",
            "translator": "Benjamin Jowett",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-euthydemus-en",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        },
        {
            "language": "fr",
            "text": "[295a] Cela nous parut tout-à-fait incroyable. Alors Euthydème, s’adressant à moi : Tu ne nous crois pas, dit-il, Socrate ? — Je ne crois qu’une chose, c’est que vous êtes fort habiles. — Si tu veux me répondre, dit-il, je te ferai avouer à toi-même ces admirables choses. — Oh ! répondis-je, je serai bien aise d’en être convaincu ; car jusqu’ici j’ignorais ma science, et si tu me fais voir que je sais tout et que je l’ai toujours su, quel bonheur plus grand pourrait m’arriver dans cette vie ? — Réponds-moi donc. — Interroge ; je répondrai. [295b] — Eh bien, Socrate, es-tu savant en quelque chose, ou en rien du tout ? — En quelque chose. — Et est-ce par ce qui fait que tu es savant, que tu sais, ou par quelque autre chose ? — Par ce qui fait que je suis savant, car tu veux parler de mon âme, n’est-ce pas ? — N’as-tu pas honte, Socrate, d’interroger quand on t’interroge ? — Soit, répliquai-je ; mais que veux-tu que je fasse ? Je ferai tout ce que tu voudras ; quoique je ne sache pas ce que tu me demandes, tu exiges que je réponde et que je n’interroge jamais. [295c] — Mais tu entends quelque chose à ce que je demande ? — Oui. — Réponds donc à ce que tu entends. — Mais, lui dis-je, si en m’interrogeant tu as une chose dans l’esprit, et que j’en entende une autre, et que je réponde à ce que j’entends, seras-tu satisfait de réponses étrangères à la question ? — Cela me suffira, dit-il ; mais non pas à toi, à ce qu’il paraît. — Je ne répondrai donc point, par Jupiter, m’écriai-je, que je ne sache ce que l’on me demande. — Tu ne réponds pas à ce que tu entends, car tu ne dis que des sottises, et tu fais le niais mal-à-propos. [295d] — Je vis alors qu’il était irrité contre moi pour avoir démêlé les mots dans lesquels il voulait m’envelopper. Il me souvint aussitôt de Connos, qui se fâche toujours quand je ne lui obéis pas, et finit par me laisser là comme un homme indocile. Étant doue résolu de fréquenter ces étrangers, je crus que je devais leur obéir, de peur qu’ils ne me repoussassent comme un entêté, et je dis à Euthydème : [295e] Eh bien, si tu le trouves bon de la sorte, faisons ce qu’il te plaira ; tu connais mieux que moi les lois de la dispute, car tu y es maître, et moi j’y suis entièrement neuf. Reprends donc tes interrogations dès le commencement. — Réponds-moi, dit-il : ce que tu sais, le sais-tu par le moyen de quelque chose ou de rien ? — Oui, répondis-je, par le moyen de mon âme.",
            "translator": "Victor Cousin",
            "edition": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-euthydemus-fr-01",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        }
    ],
    "content_checksum": "45796158b3d50b96ab4bca69bb7622b4371919c83376f6336c3efd50d5458f49"
}