{
    "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1",
    "id": "plato.meno",
    "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/meno/reference-84/",
    "language": "en",
    "title": "Meno",
    "author": "Plato",
    "date": "c. 390-380 BCE",
    "summary": "Meno asks whether virtue can be taught. Socrates first requires a definition, then introduces recollection, geometrical inquiry with an enslaved boy, and the difference between true opinion and knowledge secured by an account.",
    "learning": "Understand Meno’s paradox and recollection, distinguish true opinion from knowledge, and follow the unfinished inquiry into teaching virtue.",
    "long_summary": "Meno’s definitions multiply like a swarm before the paradox of inquiry asks how one can seek what one does not know. The geometrical exchange shows a capacity to advance through questions without simply receiving an answer.\n\nThe second part seeks teachers of virtue and observes that Athenian leaders do not reliably transmit their excellence. The conclusion makes right opinion a possible but unstable guide. The exact nature of virtue and status of its teachability remain open.",
    "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.",
    "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE",
    "material_world": {
        "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.",
        "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.",
        "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.",
        "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.",
        "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.",
        "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.",
        "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
    },
    "material_world_scenes": [
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp",
            "title": "Technology, science, and care",
            "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp",
            "title": "Travel and communication",
            "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp",
            "title": "Farming and food",
            "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war."
        },
        {
            "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp",
            "title": "Clothing, women and men",
            "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes."
        }
    ],
    "intellectual_tradition": {
        "id": "platonism",
        "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought"
    },
    "period": {
        "id": "ancient",
        "label": "Antiquity"
    },
    "languages": [
        "grc",
        "en",
        "fr"
    ],
    "manifestations": [
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/meno/representations/grc.ndjson",
            "language": "grc",
            "records": 31,
            "role": "original",
            "sha256": "927b6f661d5a563e94ee5993585ce7ac80ec558f91bc1c5c4d724b8e7bac9f7b",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-meno-grc"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/meno/representations/en.ndjson",
            "language": "en",
            "records": 31,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "b7937a4c18373cf37ff777e44ea1048af76ac9a42e8819a60d808b169926a224",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-meno-en"
        },
        {
            "coverage": "complete",
            "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/meno/representations/fr.ndjson",
            "language": "fr",
            "records": 31,
            "role": "historical_translation",
            "sha256": "8e84bc818d021df2987ca4e31376e293a25e578d10665bcbf1503b5f950ce3ec",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-meno-fr-01"
        }
    ],
    "concepts": [
        {
            "id": "anger",
            "label": "Anger"
        },
        {
            "id": "aporia",
            "label": "Aporia"
        },
        {
            "id": "craving",
            "label": "Craving"
        },
        {
            "id": "desire",
            "label": "Desire"
        },
        {
            "id": "dialectic",
            "label": "Dialectic"
        },
        {
            "id": "education",
            "label": "Education"
        },
        {
            "id": "ether_field",
            "label": "Ether and field"
        },
        {
            "id": "family",
            "label": "Family"
        },
        {
            "id": "forms",
            "label": "Intelligible forms"
        },
        {
            "id": "human_wisdom",
            "label": "Human wisdom"
        },
        {
            "id": "justice",
            "label": "Justice"
        },
        {
            "id": "knowledge",
            "label": "Knowledge"
        },
        {
            "id": "law",
            "label": "Law"
        },
        {
            "id": "memory",
            "label": "Memory"
        },
        {
            "id": "messiah",
            "label": "Messiah"
        },
        {
            "id": "philosophical_eros",
            "label": "Philosophical eros"
        },
        {
            "id": "pleasure",
            "label": "Pleasure"
        },
        {
            "id": "recollection",
            "label": "Recollection"
        },
        {
            "id": "service",
            "label": "Service"
        },
        {
            "id": "sin",
            "label": "Sin"
        },
        {
            "id": "time",
            "label": "Time"
        },
        {
            "id": "truth",
            "label": "Truth"
        },
        {
            "id": "virtue",
            "label": "Virtue"
        },
        {
            "id": "war_and_peace",
            "label": "War and peace"
        }
    ],
    "source_work_ids": [
        "plato.meno"
    ],
    "passages": 31,
    "word_count": 13779,
    "word_counts_by_language": {
        "en": 13779,
        "fr": 13804,
        "grc": 10283
    },
    "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1",
    "structure": {
        "citation_scheme": "plato-stephanus-page-v1",
        "kind": "native",
        "levels": [
            {
                "key": "stephanus_page",
                "label_fr": "Page Stephanus",
                "label_en": "Stephanus page"
            }
        ],
        "leaf_fr": "Passage",
        "leaf_en": "Passage"
    },
    "canonical_passage_id": "passage:plato.meno:84",
    "canonical_ref": "84",
    "canonical_parent_ref": null,
    "canonical_parent_id": null,
    "representations": [
        {
            "language": "grc",
            "text": "ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἀπὸ ποίας; πειρῶ ἡμῖν εἰπεῖν ἀκριβῶς· καὶ εἰ μὴ βούλει ἀριθμεῖν, ἀλλὰ δεῖξον ἀπὸ ποίας. ΠΑΙ. ἀλλὰ μὰ τὸν Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔγωγε οὐκ οἶδα. ΣΩ. ἐννοεῖς αὖ, ὦ Μένων, οὗ ἐστιν ἤδη βαδίζων ὅδε τοῦ ἀναμιμνῄσκεσθαι; ὅτι τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ᾔδει μὲν οὔ, ἥτις ἐστὶν ἡ τοῦ ὀκτώποδος χωρίου γραμμή, ὥσπερ οὐδὲ νῦν πω οἶδεν, ἀλλʼ οὖν ᾤετό γʼ αὐτὴν τότε εἰδέναι, καὶ θαρραλέως ἀπεκρίνετο ὡς εἰδώς, καὶ οὐχ ἡγεῖτο ἀπορεῖν· νῦν δὲ ἡγεῖται ἀπορεῖν ἤδη, καὶ ὥσπερ οὐκ οἶδεν, οὐδʼ οἴεται εἰδέναι. ΜΕΝ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν νῦν βέλτιον ἔχει περὶ τὸ πρᾶγμα ὃ οὐκ ᾔδει; ΜΕΝ. καὶ τοῦτό μοι δοκεῖ. ΣΩ. ἀπορεῖν οὖν αὐτὸν ποιήσαντες καὶ ναρκᾶν ὥσπερ ἡ νάρκη, μῶν τι ἐβλάψαμεν; ΜΕΝ. οὐκ ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ. ΣΩ. προὔργου γοῦν τι πεποιήκαμεν, ὡς ἔοικε, πρὸς τὸ ἐξευρεῖν ὅπῃ ἔχει· νῦν μὲν γὰρ καὶ ζητήσειεν ἂν ἡδέως οὐκ εἰδώς, τότε δὲ ῥᾳδίως ἂν καὶ πρὸς πολλοὺς καὶ πολλάκις ᾤετʼ ἂν εὖ λέγειν περὶ τοῦ διπλασίου χωρίου, ὡς δεῖ διπλασίαν τὴν γραμμὴν ἔχειν μήκει. ΜΕΝ. ἔοικεν. ΣΩ. οἴει οὖν ἂν αὐτὸν πρότερον ἐπιχειρῆσαι ζητεῖν ἢ μανθάνειν τοῦτο ὃ ᾤετο εἰδέναι οὐκ εἰδώς, πρὶν εἰς ἀπορίαν κατέπεσεν ἡγησάμενος μὴ εἰδέναι, καὶ ἐπόθησεν τὸ εἰδέναι; ΜΕΝ. οὔ μοι δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες. ΣΩ. ὤνητο ἄρα ναρκήσας; ΜΕΝ. δοκεῖ μοι. ΣΩ. σκέψαι δὴ ἐκ ταύτης τῆς ἀπορίας ὅτι καὶ ἀνευρήσει ζητῶν μετʼ ἐμοῦ, οὐδὲν ἀλλʼ ἢ ἐρωτῶντος ἐμοῦ καὶ οὐ διδάσκοντος· φύλαττε δὲ ἄν που εὕρῃς με διδάσκοντα καὶ διεξιόντα αὐτῷ, ἀλλὰ μὴ τὰς τούτου δόξας ἀνερωτῶντα. λέγε γάρ μοι σύ· οὐ τὸ μὲν τετράπουν τοῦτο ἡμῖν ἐστι χωρίον; μανθάνεις; ΠΑΙ. ἔγωγε. ΣΩ. ἕτερον δὲ αὐτῷ προσθεῖμεν ἂν τουτὶ ἴσον; ΠΑΙ. ναί. ΣΩ. καὶ τρίτον τόδε ἴσον ἑκατέρῳ τούτων; ΠΑΙ. ναί. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν προσαναπληρωσαίμεθʼ ἂν τὸ ἐν τῇ γωνίᾳ τόδε; ΠΑΙ. πάνυ γε. ΣΩ. ἄλλο τι οὖν γένοιτʼ ἂν τέτταρα ἴσα χωρία τάδε; ΠΑΙ. ναί. ΣΩ. τί οὖν; τὸ ὅλον τόδε ποσαπλάσιον τοῦδε γίγνεται; ΠΑΙ. τετραπλάσιον. ΣΩ. ἔδει δέ γε διπλάσιον ἡμῖν γενέσθαι· ἢ οὐ μέμνησαι; ΠΑΙ. πάνυ γε.",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-meno-grc",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-meno-grc",
            "translation_type": "original"
        },
        {
            "language": "en",
            "text": "Soc. But from what line shall we get it? Try and tell us exactly; and if you would rather not reckon it out, just show what line it is. Boy. Well, on my word, Socrates, I for one do not know. Soc. There now, Meno, do you observe who progress he has already made in his recollection? At first he did not know what is the line that forms the figure of eight feet, and he does not know even now: but at any rate he thought he knew then, and confidently answered as though he knew, and was aware of no difficulty; whereas now he feels the difficulty he is in, and besides not knowing does not think he knows. Men. That is true. Soc. And is he not better off in respect of the matter which he did not know? Men. I think that too is so. Soc. Now, by causing him to doubt and giving him the torpedo’s shock, have we done him any harm? Men. I think not. Soc. And we have certainly given him some assistance, it would seem, towards finding out the truth of the matter: for now he will push on in the search gladly, as lacking knowledge; whereas then he would have been only too ready to suppose he was right in saying, before any number of people any number of times, that the double space must have a line of double the length for its side. Men. It seems so. Soc. Now do you imagine he would have attempted to inquire or learn what he thought he knew, when he did not know it, until he had been reduced to the perplexity of realizing that he did not know, and had felt a craving to know? Men. I think not, Socrates. Soc. Then the torpedo’s shock was of advantage to him? Men. I think so. Soc. Now you should note how, as a result of this perplexity, he will go on and discover something by joint inquiry with me, while I merely ask questions and do not teach him; and be on the watch to see if at any point you find me teaching him or expounding to him, instead of questioning him on his opinions. Tell me, boy: here we have a square of four feet, have we not? You understand? Boy. Yes. Soc. And here we add another square equal to it? Boy. Yes. Soc. And here a third, equal to either of them? Boy. Yes. Soc. Now shall we fill up this vacant space in the corner? Boy. By all means. Soc. So here we must have four equal spaces? BOY. Yes. Soc. Well now, how many times larger is this whole space than this other? Boy. Four times. Soc. But it was to have been only twice, you remember? Boy. To be sure.",
            "translator": "Benjamin Jowett",
            "edition": "perseus-plato-meno-en",
            "source_id": "perseus-plato-meno-en",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        },
        {
            "language": "fr",
            "text": "[84a] si tu ne veux point l’exprimer en nombres, montre-la-nous. L’ESCLAVE. Par Jupiter, je n’en sais rien, Socrate. SOCRATE. Tu vois de nouveau, Menon, quel chemin il a fait dans la réminiscence. Il ne savait point au commencement quelle est la ligne d’où se forme l’espace de huit pieds, comme il ne le sait pas encore. Mais alors il croyait le savoir, et il a répondu avec confiance, comme s’il le savait ; et il ne croyait pas être dans l’embarras à cet égard. À présent il reconnaît [84b] son embarras, et comme il ne sait point, aussi ne croit-il point savoir. MENON. Tu dis vrai. SOCRATE. N’est-il pas actuellement dans une meilleure disposition par rapport à la chose qu’il ignorait ? MENON. C’est ce qu’il me semble. SOCRATE. En le faisant douter, et en l’engourdissant comme la torpille, lui avons-nous fait quelque tort ? MENON. Je ne le pense pas. SOCRATE. Au contraire, nous l’avons mis, ce semble, plus à portée de découvrir la vérité ; car à présent, quoiqu’il ne sache point la chose, il la cherchera avec plaisir : au lieu qu’auparavant il eût dit sans façon, devant plusieurs et souvent, [84c] croyant bien dire, que l’espace double doit être formé d’une ligne double en longueur. MENON. Il y a apparence. SOCRATE. Penses-tu qu’il eût entrepris de chercher ou d’apprendre ce qu’il croyait savoir, encore qu’il ne le sût point, avant d’être parvenu à douter, et jusqu’à ce que, convaincu de son ignorance, il a désiré savoir ? MENON. Je ne le crois pas, Socrate. SOCRATE. L’engourdissement lui a donc été avantageux ? MENON. Il me paraît que oui. SOCRATE. Considère maintenant comment, en partant de ce doute, il découvrira la chose en cherchant avec moi, tandis que je ne ferai que l’interroger, et ne lui apprendrai rien. [84d] Observe bien si tu me surprendras lui enseignant et lui expliquant quoi que ce soit, en un mot faisant rien de plus que lui demander ce qu’il pense. Toi, dis-moi : cet espace n’est-il point de quatre pieds ? Tu comprends ? L’ESCLAVE. Oui. SOCRATE. Ne peut-on pas lui ajouter cet autre espace qui lui est égal ? L’ESCLAVE. Oui. SOCRATE. Et ce troisième égal aux deux autres ? L’ESCLAVE. Oui. SOCRATE. Ne pouvons-nous pas achever la figure en plaçant cet autre espace dans cet angle ? L’ESCLAVE. Sans doute. SOCRATE. Cela ne fait-il point quatre espaces égaux [84e] entre eux ? L’ESCLAVE. Oui. SOCRATE. Mais quoi, combien est tout cet espace par rapport à celui-ci ? L’ESCLAVE. Il est quadruple. SOCRATE. Or il nous en fallait faire un double. Ne t’en souvient-il pas ? L’ESCLAVE. Si fait. SOCRATE. Cette ligne, qui va d’un angle à l’autre,",
            "translator": "Victor Cousin",
            "edition": "wikisource-cousin-meno-fr-01",
            "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-meno-fr-01",
            "translation_type": "historical_human_translation"
        }
    ],
    "content_checksum": "8f6b45232862b404652136631d3a979b04bcffc91df92cbaf5957d43a347a208"
}