{ "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1", "id": "plato.phaedrus", "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/phaedrus/reference-274/", "language": "en", "title": "Phaedrus", "author": "Plato", "date": "c. 370-360 BCE", "summary": "Beside the Ilissus, Socrates and Phaedrus move from rival speeches on love to inquiry into soul, rhetoric, and writing. Inspired madness and the myth of the winged chariot connect desire, memory, and knowledge.", "learning": "Compare the three speeches on love, interpret the winged chariot, and connect dialectic, knowledge of soul, and criticism of writing.", "long_summary": "Socrates first answers a speech attributed to Lysias with criticism of the lover, then recants in a palinode presenting philosophical love as recollection of intelligible beauty. The soul’s motion appears through a charioteer and two horses.\n\nThe final section requires a good speaker to divide subjects and know kinds of soul. The myth of Theuth criticizes writing unable to answer questions. Yet that criticism occurs in a written dialogue, making the text an examination of its own medium.", "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.", "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE", "material_world": { "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.", "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.", "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.", "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.", "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.", "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.", "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." }, "material_world_scenes": [ { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp", "title": "Technology, science, and care", "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp", "title": "Travel and communication", "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp", "title": "Farming and food", "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp", "title": "Clothing, women and men", "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." } ], "intellectual_tradition": { "id": "platonism", "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought" }, "period": { "id": "ancient", "label": "Antiquity" }, "languages": [ "grc", "en", "fr" ], "manifestations": [ { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/phaedrus/representations/grc.ndjson", "language": "grc", "records": 53, "role": "original", "sha256": "5bd1e7e9adc97217c70106184ae220484549f5128a85008079096582de446091", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/phaedrus/representations/en.ndjson", "language": "en", "records": 53, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "332a397c46cf00b332851316b94a38efaa98d26f847f923e84803499f4b8fd0d", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/phaedrus/representations/ai-generated/fr-gpt-5-6-sol-corpus-passage-translation-v1.ndjson", "generated_on": "2026-09-11", "language": "fr", "model": "gpt-5.6-sol", "official_status": "non_official", "prompt_version": "corpus-passage-translation-v1", "provider": "codex_subscription", "records": 53, "role": "ai_generated_translation_non_official", "sha256": "c31c02a32d09f4754215908cdc5f71844103df8a5d86355726e14dffbbea2324", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/phaedrus_fr_carrier/representations/fr.ndjson", "language": "fr", "records": 1, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "23b7d4c5c4eb89f61caeed948a7e761751acb0a4df2e253a45112be8a4c6c507", "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-01" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/plato/phaedrus_fr_carrier/representations/ai-generated/en-gpt-5-6-sol-corpus-passage-translation-v1.ndjson", "generated_on": "2026-09-11", "language": "en", "model": "gpt-5.6-sol", "official_status": "non_official", "prompt_version": "corpus-passage-translation-v1", "provider": "codex_subscription", "records": 1, "role": "ai_generated_translation_non_official", "sha256": "67585bf3bb56ad2c2f197d63412a44e15f5bfabbc79f5e96a9a448397bc64ee8", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation" } ], "concepts": [ { "id": "anger", "label": "Anger" }, { "id": "beneficence", "label": "Beneficence" }, { "id": "care_of_soul", "label": "Care of the soul" }, { "id": "desire", "label": "Desire" }, { "id": "ether_field", "label": "Ether and field" }, { "id": "god", "label": "God" }, { "id": "logos_nature", "label": "Logos of nature" }, { "id": "memory", "label": "Memory" }, { "id": "philosophical_eros", "label": "Philosophical eros" }, { "id": "philosophical_training", "label": "Philosophical training" }, { "id": "reason", "label": "Reason" }, { "id": "rhetoric", "label": "Rhetoric" }, { "id": "slavery", "label": "Slavery" }, { "id": "time", "label": "Time" }, { "id": "wisdom", "label": "Wisdom" } ], "source_work_ids": [ "plato.phaedrus", "plato.phaedrus_fr_carrier" ], "passages": 53, "word_count": 23263, "word_counts_by_language": { "en": 23263, "fr": 22820, "grc": 17029 }, "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1", "structure": { "citation_scheme": "plato-stephanus-page-v1", "kind": "native", "levels": [ { "key": "stephanus_page", "label_fr": "Page Stephanus", "label_en": "Stephanus page" } ], "leaf_fr": "Passage", "leaf_en": "Passage" }, "canonical_passage_id": "passage:plato.phaedrus:274", "canonical_ref": "274", "canonical_parent_ref": null, "canonical_parent_id": null, "representations": [ { "language": "grc", "text": "ΣΩ. οὐ γὰρ δὴ ἄρα, ὦ Τεισία, φασὶν οἱ σοφώτεροι ἡμῶν, ὁμοδούλοις δεῖ χαρίζεσθαι μελετᾶν τὸν νοῦν ἔχοντα, ὅτι μὴ πάρεργον, ἀλλὰ δεσπόταις ἀγαθοῖς τε καὶ ἐξ ἀγαθῶν. ὥστʼ εἰ μακρὰ ἡ περίοδος, μὴ θαυμάσῃς· μεγάλων γὰρ ἕνεκα περιιτέον, οὐχ ὡς σὺ δοκεῖς. ἔσται μήν, ὡς ὁ λόγος φησίν, ἐάν τις ἐθέλῃ, καὶ ταῦτα κάλλιστα ἐξ ἐκείνων γιγνόμενα. ΦΑΙ. παγκάλως ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ λέγεσθαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἴπερ οἷός τέ τις εἴη. ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐπιχειροῦντί τοι τοῖς καλοῖς καλὸν καὶ πάσχειν ὅτι ἄν τῳ συμβῇ παθεῖν. ΦΑΙ. καὶ μάλα. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τὸ μὲν τέχνης τε καὶ ἀτεχνίας λόγων πέρι ἱκανῶς ἐχέτω. ΦΑΙ. τί μήν; ΣΩ. τὸ δʼ εὐπρεπείας δὴ γραφῆς πέρι καὶ ἀπρεπείας, πῇ γιγνόμενον καλῶς ἂν ἔχοι καὶ ὅπῃ ἀπρεπῶς, λοιπόν. ἦ γάρ; ΦΑΙ. ναί. ΣΩ. οἶσθʼ οὖν ὅπῃ μάλιστα θεῷ χαριῇ λόγων πέρι πράττων ἢ λέγων; ΦΑΙ. οὐδαμῶς· σὺ δέ; ΣΩ. ἀκοήν γʼ ἔχω λέγειν τῶν προτέρων, τὸ δʼ ἀληθὲς αὐτοὶ ἴσασιν. εἰ δὲ τοῦτο εὕροιμεν αὐτοί, ἆρά γʼ ἂν ἔθʼ ἡμῖν μέλοι τι τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων δοξασμάτων; ΦΑΙ. γελοῖον ἤρου· ἀλλʼ ἃ φῂς ἀκηκοέναι λέγε. ΣΩ. ἤκουσα τοίνυν περὶ Ναύκρατιν τῆς Αἰγύπτου γενέσθαι τῶν ἐκεῖ παλαιῶν τινα θεῶν, οὗ καὶ τὸ ὄρνεον ἱερὸν ὃ δὴ καλοῦσιν Ἶβιν· αὐτῷ δὲ ὄνομα τῷ δαίμονι εἶναι Θεύθ. τοῦτον δὴ πρῶτον ἀριθμόν τε καὶ λογισμὸν εὑρεῖν καὶ γεωμετρίαν καὶ ἀστρονομίαν, ἔτι δὲ πεττείας τε καὶ κυβείας, καὶ δὴ καὶ γράμματα. βασιλέως δʼ αὖ τότε ὄντος Αἰγύπτου ὅλης Θαμοῦ περὶ τὴν μεγάλην πόλιν τοῦ ἄνω τόπου ἣν οἱ Ἕλληνες Αἰγυπτίας Θήβας καλοῦσι, καὶ τὸν θεὸν Ἄμμωνα, παρὰ τοῦτον ἐλθὼν ὁ Θεὺθ τὰς τέχνας ἐπέδειξεν, καὶ ἔφη δεῖν διαδοθῆναι τοῖς ἄλλοις Αἰγυπτίοις· ὁ δὲ ἤρετο ἥντινα ἑκάστη ἔχοι ὠφελίαν, διεξιόντος δέ, ὅτι καλῶς ἢ μὴ καλῶς δοκοῖ λέγειν, τὸ μὲν ἔψεγεν, τὸ δʼ ἐπῄνει. πολλὰ μὲν δὴ περὶ ἑκάστης τῆς τέχνης ἐπʼ ἀμφότερα Θαμοῦν τῷ Θεὺθ λέγεται ἀποφήνασθαι, ἃ λόγος πολὺς ἂν εἴη διελθεῖν· ἐπειδὴ δὲ ἐπὶ τοῖς γράμμασιν ἦν, τοῦτο δέ, ὦ βασιλεῦ, τὸ μάθημα, ἔφη ὁ Θεύθ, σοφωτέρους Αἰγυπτίους καὶ μνημονικωτέρους παρέξει· μνήμης τε γὰρ καὶ σοφίας φάρμακον ηὑρέθη.", "edition": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc", "translation_type": "original" }, { "language": "en", "text": "Socrates. For those who are wiser than we, Tisias, say that a man of sense should surely practice to please not his fellow slaves, except as a secondary consideration, but his good and noble masters. Therefore, if the path is long, be not astonished; for it must be trodden for great ends, not for those you have in mind. Yet your ends also, as our argument says, will be best gained in this way, if one so desires. Phaedrus. I think what you have said is admirable, if one could only do it. Socrates. But it is noble to strive after noble objects, no matter what happens to us. Phaedrus. Certainly. Socrates. We have, then, said enough about the art of speaking and that which is no art. Phaedrus. Assuredly. Socrates. But we have still to speak of propriety and impropriety in writing, how it should be done and how it is improper, have we not? Phaedrus. Yes. Socrates. Do you know how you can act or speak about rhetoric so as to please God best? Phaedrus. Not at all; do you? Socrates. I can tell something I have heard of the ancients; but whether it is true, they only know. But if we ourselves should find it out, should we care any longer for human opinions? Phaedrus. A ridiculous question! But tell me what you say you have heard. Socrates. I heard, then, that at Naucratis , in Egypt , was one of the ancient gods of that country, the one whose sacred bird is called the ibis, and the name of the god himself was Theuth. He it was who invented numbers and arithmetic and geometry and astronomy, also draughts and dice, and, most important of all, letters. Now the king of all Egypt at that time was the god Thamus, who lived in the great city of the upper region, which the Greeks call the Egyptian Thebes, and they call the god himself Ammon. To him came Theuth to show his inventions, saying that they ought to be imparted to the other Egyptians. But Thamus asked what use there was in each, and as Theuth enumerated their uses, expressed praise or blame, according as he approved or disapproved. The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, This invention, O king, said Theuth, will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered.", "translator": "Benjamin Jowett", "edition": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en", "translation_type": "historical_human_translation" }, { "language": "fr", "text": "Socrate. Car ceux qui sont plus sages que nous, Tisias, disent qu’un homme sensé doit assurément s’exercer à plaire non pas à ses compagnons d’esclavage, sinon à titre secondaire, mais à ses maîtres bons et nobles. Ne t’étonne donc pas si le chemin est long; car il faut le parcourir pour de grandes fins, non pour celles que tu as à l’esprit. Pourtant, comme le dit notre argument, tes fins aussi seront le mieux atteintes de cette manière, si on le désire.\n\nPhèdre. Je trouve admirable ce que tu as dit, si seulement on pouvait le faire.\n\nSocrate. Mais il est noble de s’efforcer d’atteindre de nobles objets, quoi qu’il nous arrive.\n\nPhèdre. Certainement.\n\nSocrate. Nous en avons donc dit assez sur l’art de parler et sur ce qui n’est pas un art.\n\nPhèdre. Assurément.\n\nSocrate. Mais il nous reste encore à parler de ce qui convient ou ne convient pas dans l’écriture, de la manière dont il faut écrire et de celle dont il est inconvenant de le faire, n’est-ce pas?\n\nPhèdre. Oui.\n\nSocrate. Sais-tu comment tu peux agir ou parler au sujet de la rhétorique de manière à plaire le mieux à Dieu?\n\nPhèdre. Pas du tout; et toi?\n\nSocrate. Je peux rapporter quelque chose que j’ai entendu des anciens; mais eux seuls savent si cela est vrai. Toutefois, si nous le découvrions nous-mêmes, nous soucierions-nous encore des opinions humaines?\n\nPhèdre. Question ridicule! Mais raconte-moi ce que tu dis avoir entendu.\n\nSocrate. J’ai donc entendu dire qu’à Naucratis, en Égypte, vivait l’un des anciens dieux de ce pays, celui dont l’oiseau sacré est appelé ibis; le nom du dieu lui-même était Theuth. C’est lui qui inventa les nombres et l’arithmétique, la géométrie et l’astronomie, ainsi que le jeu de dames et les dés, et surtout les lettres. En ce temps-là, le roi de toute l’Égypte était le dieu Thamous, qui habitait la grande cité de la région supérieure, que les Grecs appellent Thèbes d’Égypte; quant au dieu lui-même, ils l’appellent Ammon. Theuth vint le trouver pour lui montrer ses inventions, disant qu’elles devaient être communiquées aux autres Égyptiens. Mais Thamous lui demanda quelle était l’utilité de chacune; et à mesure que Theuth en énumérait les usages, il exprimait son éloge ou son blâme, selon qu’il les approuvait ou les désapprouvait. On raconte que Thamous dit beaucoup de choses à Theuth, louant ou blâmant les différents arts, et qu’il serait trop long de les répéter. Mais lorsqu’ils en vinrent aux lettres, Theuth dit: «Cette invention, ô roi, rendra les Égyptiens plus sages et améliorera leur mémoire; car j’ai découvert un élixir de mémoire et de sagesse.»", "translator": "Codex gpt-5.6-sol", "edition": "Prokopton42 non-official AI translation, 2026-09-11", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation", "official_status": "non_official", "generation_model": "gpt-5.6-sol" } ], "content_checksum": "c7820a9f881a6f14b39a936b0cf00f4b6aa24577281a114b7731ad1c2c0d4c09" }