{ "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1", "id": "socrates.plato_gorgias", "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/plato-gorgias/reference-522/", "language": "en", "title": "Socrates in Plato’s Gorgias", "author": "Plato", "date": "c. 390-380 BCE", "summary": "Facing three defenders of rhetoric and power, Plato’s Socrates argues that speech without knowledge of justice is flattery. He prefers suffering injustice to deforming his soul by committing it.", "learning": "Compare Socrates’ strategies with three interlocutors, connect justice with the soul’s condition, and qualify Plato’s polemical mediation.", "long_summary": "With Gorgias Socrates asks what object and knowledge belong to rhetoric; with Polus he denies that a tyrant truly does what he wants; with Callicles he opposes ordered desire to justice claimed by the stronger.\n\nThe exchange’s increasing harshness constructs a Socrates ready to stand alone against opinion. Plato gives him arguments, medical analogies, and the final myth. This philosophical portrait reveals a Socratic ideal within dialogue, not an independent recording of controversies.", "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.", "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE", "material_world": { "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.", "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.", "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.", "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.", "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.", "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.", "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." }, "material_world_scenes": [ { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp", "title": "Technology, science, and care", "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp", "title": "Travel and communication", "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp", "title": "Farming and food", "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp", "title": "Clothing, women and men", "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." } ], "intellectual_tradition": { "id": "platonism", "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought" }, "period": { "id": "ancient", "label": "Antiquity" }, "languages": [ "grc", "en", "fr" ], "manifestations": [ { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_gorgias/representations/grc.ndjson", "language": "grc", "records": 81, "role": "original_carrier", "sha256": "6375206e2c0f5f63895c63ad84f2e4193caaf0e9b977b3ebbee150a974cdbb45", "source_id": "perseus-plato-gorgias-grc" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_gorgias/representations/en.ndjson", "language": "en", "records": 81, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "9937810691c453868da6ec45248a969dae04575a84bebe600ec35a027685aa0c", "source_id": "perseus-plato-gorgias-en" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_gorgias/representations/ai-generated/fr-gpt-5-6-sol-corpus-passage-translation-v1.ndjson", "generated_on": "2026-09-11", "language": "fr", "model": "gpt-5.6-sol", "official_status": "non_official", "prompt_version": "corpus-passage-translation-v1", "provider": "codex_subscription", "records": 81, "role": "ai_generated_translation_non_official", "sha256": "1672b73fb3bffbc60e73a797170f990f81f7705c94337417cbcdc6125e94649f", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_gorgias_fr_carrier/representations/fr.ndjson", "language": "fr", "records": 1, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "4b9564c5c0a6b85cac39c19a5c63e22e96ec784408a36acb9bd633039e4474e7", "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-gorgias-fr-01" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_gorgias_fr_carrier/representations/ai-generated/en-gpt-5-6-sol-corpus-passage-translation-v1.ndjson", "generated_on": "2026-09-11", "language": "en", "model": "gpt-5.6-sol", "official_status": "non_official", "prompt_version": "corpus-passage-translation-v1", "provider": "codex_subscription", "records": 1, "role": "ai_generated_translation_non_official", "sha256": "cf12413957fc07735d82d9845e2dd3a40ff64aaefde16714f85c1a63d0206994", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation" } ], "concepts": [ { "id": "aporia", "label": "Aporia" }, { "id": "beneficence", "label": "Beneficence" }, { "id": "care_of_soul", "label": "Care of the soul" }, { "id": "death", "label": "Death" }, { "id": "education", "label": "Education" }, { "id": "elenchus", "label": "Elenchus" }, { "id": "ether_field", "label": "Ether and field" }, { "id": "family", "label": "Family" }, { "id": "fear", "label": "Fear" }, { "id": "forms", "label": "Intelligible forms" }, { "id": "god", "label": "God" }, { "id": "justice", "label": "Justice" }, { "id": "law", "label": "Law" }, { "id": "pleasure", "label": "Pleasure" }, { "id": "reason", "label": "Reason" }, { "id": "rhetoric", "label": "Rhetoric" }, { "id": "service", "label": "Service" }, { "id": "sin", "label": "Sin" }, { "id": "truth", "label": "Truth" } ], "source_work_ids": [ "socrates.plato_gorgias", "socrates.plato_gorgias_fr_carrier" ], "passages": 81, "word_count": 42811, "word_counts_by_language": { "en": 42811, "fr": 43834, "grc": 27405 }, "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1", "structure": { "citation_scheme": "carrier-explicit-ancient-reference-v1", "kind": "native", "levels": [ { "key": "reference", "label_fr": "Référence", "label_en": "Reference" } ], "leaf_fr": "Passage", "leaf_en": "Passage" }, "canonical_passage_id": "passage:socrates.plato_gorgias:522", "canonical_ref": "522", "canonical_parent_ref": null, "canonical_parent_id": null, "representations": [ { "language": "grc", "text": "ΣΩ. σκόπει γάρ, τί ἂν ἀπολογοῖτο ὁ τοιοῦτος ἄνθρωπος ἐν τούτοις ληφθείς, εἰ αὐτοῦ κατηγοροῖ τις λέγων ὅτι ὦ παῖδες, πολλὰ ὑμᾶς καὶ κακὰ ὅδε εἴργασται ἀνὴρ καὶ αὐτούς, καὶ τοὺς νεωτάτους ὑμῶν διαφθείρει τέμνων τε καὶ κάων, καὶ ἰσχναίνων καὶ πνίγων ἀπορεῖν ποιεῖ, πικρότατα πώματα διδοὺς καὶ πεινῆν καὶ διψῆν ἀναγκάζων, οὐχ ὥσπερ ἐγὼ πολλὰ καὶ ἡδέα καὶ παντοδαπὰ ηὐώχουν ὑμᾶς· τί ἂν οἴει ἐν τούτῳ τῷ κακῷ ἀποληφθέντα ἰατρὸν ἔχειν εἰπεῖν; ἢ εἰ εἴποι τὴν ἀλήθειαν, ὅτι ταῦτα πάντα ἐγὼ ἐποίουν, ὦ παῖδες, ὑγιεινῶς, πόσον τι οἴει ἂν ἀναβοῆσαι τοὺς τοιούτους δικαστάς; οὐ μέγα; ΚΑΛ. ἴσως· οἴεσθαί γε χρή. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν οἴει ἐν πάσῃ ἀπορίᾳ ἂν αὐτὸν ἔχεσθαι ὅτι χρὴ εἰπεῖν; ΚΑΛ. πάνυ γε. ΣΩ. τοιοῦτον μέντοι καὶ ἐγὼ οἶδα ὅτι πάθος πάθοιμι ἂν εἰσελθὼν εἰς δικαστήριον. οὔτε γὰρ ἡδονὰς ἃς ἐκπεπόρικα ἕξω αὐτοῖς λέγειν, ἃς οὗτοι εὐεργεσίας καὶ ὠφελίας νομίζουσιν, ἐγὼ δὲ οὔτε τοὺς πορίζοντας ζηλῶ οὔτε οἷς πορίζεται· ἐάν τέ τίς με ἢ νεωτέρους φῇ διαφθείρειν ἀπορεῖν ποιοῦντα, ἢ τοὺς πρεσβυτέρους κακηγορεῖν λέγοντα πικροὺς λόγους ἢ ἰδίᾳ ἢ δημοσίᾳ, οὔτε τὸ ἀληθὲς ἕξω εἰπεῖν, ὅτι δικαίως πάντα ταῦτα ἐγὼ λέγω, καὶ πράττω τὸ ὑμέτερον δὴ τοῦτο, ὦ ἄνδρες δικασταί, οὔτε ἄλλο οὐδέν· ὥστε ἴσως, ὅτι ἂν τύχω, τοῦτο πείσομαι. ΚΑΛ. δοκεῖ οὖν σοι, ὦ Σώκρατες, καλῶς ἔχειν ἄνθρωπος ἐν πόλει οὕτως διακείμενος καὶ ἀδύνατος ὢν ἑαυτῷ βοηθεῖν; ΣΩ. εἰ ἐκεῖνό γε ἓν αὐτῷ ὑπάρχοι, ὦ Καλλίκλεις, ὃ σὺ πολλάκις ὡμολόγησας· εἰ βεβοηθηκὼς εἴη αὑτῷ, μήτε περὶ ἀνθρώπους μήτε περὶ θεοὺς ἄδικον μηδὲν μήτε εἰρηκὼς μήτε εἰργασμένος. αὕτη γὰρ τῆς βοηθείας ἑαυτῷ πολλάκις ἡμῖν ὡμολόγηται κρατίστη εἶναι. εἰ μὲν οὖν ἐμέ τις ἐξελέγχοι ταύτην τὴν βοήθειαν ἀδύνατον ὄντα ἐμαυτῷ καὶ ἄλλῳ βοηθεῖν, αἰσχυνοίμην ἂν καὶ ἐν πολλοῖς καὶ ἐν ὀλίγοις ἐξελεγχόμενος καὶ μόνος ὑπὸ μόνου, καὶ εἰ διὰ ταύτην τὴν ἀδυναμίαν ἀποθνῄσκοιμι, ἀγανακτοίην ἄν· εἰ δὲ κολακικῆς ῥητορικῆς ἐνδείᾳ τελευτῴην ἔγωγε, εὖ οἶδα ὅτι ῥᾳδίως ἴδοις ἄν με φέροντα τὸν θάνατον. αὐτὸ μὲν γὰρ τὸ ἀποθνῄσκειν οὐδεὶς φοβεῖται, ὅστις μὴ παντάπασιν ἀλόγιστός τε καὶ ἄνανδρός ἐστιν, τὸ δὲ ἀδικεῖν φοβεῖται· πολλῶν γὰρ ἀδικημάτων γέμοντα τὴν ψυχὴν εἰς Ἅιδου ἀφικέσθαι πάντων ἔσχατον κακῶν ἐστιν. εἰ δὲ βούλει, σοὶ ἐγώ, ὡς τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχει, ἐθέλω λόγον λέξαι. ΚΑΛ. ἀλλʼ ἐπείπερ γε καὶ τἆλλα ἐπέρανας, καὶ τοῦτο πέρανον.", "edition": "perseus-plato-gorgias-grc", "source_id": "perseus-plato-gorgias-grc", "translation_type": "original" }, { "language": "en", "text": "Soc. Just consider what defence a person like that would make at such a pass, if the prosecutor should speak against him thus: Children, this fellow has done you all a great deal of personal mischief, and he destroys even the youngest of you by cutting and burning, and starves and chokes you to distraction, giving you nasty bitter draughts and forcing you to fast and thirst; not like me, who used to gorge you with abundance of nice things of every sort. What do you suppose a doctor brought to this sad pass could say for himself? Or if he spoke the truth— All this I did, my boys, for your health —how great, think you, would be the outcry from such a bench as that? A loud one, would it not? Call. I daresay: one must suppose so. Soc. Then you suppose he would be utterly at a loss what to say? Call. Quite so. Soc. Such, however, I am sure would be my own fate if I were brought before the court. For not only shall I have no pleasures to plead as having been provided by me—which they regard as services and benefits, whereas I envy neither those who provide them nor those for whom they are provided—but if anyone alleges that I either corrupt the younger men by reducing them to perplexity, or revile the older with bitter expressions whether in private or in public, I shall be unable either to tell the truth and say— It is on just ground that I say all this, and it is your interest that I serve thereby, gentlemen of the jury —or to say anything else; and so I daresay any sort of thing, as luck may have it, will befall me. Call. Then do you think, Socrates, that a man in such a case and with no power of standing up for himself makes a fine figure in a city? Soc. Yes, if he had that one resource, Callicles, which you have repeatedly admitted; if he had stood up for himself by avoiding any unjust word or deed in regard either to men or to gods. For this has been repeatedly admitted by us to be the most valuable kind of self-protection. Now if I were convicted of inability to extend this sort of protection to either myself or another, I should be ashamed, whether my conviction took place before many or few, or as between man and man; and if that inability should bring about my death, I should be sorely vexed: but if I came to my end through a lack of flattering rhetoric, I am quite sure you would see me take my death easily. For no man fears the mere act of dying, except he be utterly irrational and unmanly; doing wrong is what one fears: for to arrive in the nether world having one’s soul full fraught with a heap of misdeeds is the uttermost of all evils. And now, if you do not mind, I would like to tell you a tale to show you that the case is so. Call. Well, as you have completed the rest of the business, go on and complete this also.", "translator": "Benjamin Jowett", "edition": "perseus-plato-gorgias-en", "source_id": "perseus-plato-gorgias-en", "translation_type": "historical_human_translation" }, { "language": "fr", "text": "Soc. Considère seulement quelle défense pourrait présenter un tel homme dans cette extrémité, si son accusateur parlait ainsi contre lui : « Enfants, cet homme vous a fait personnellement beaucoup de mal à tous. Il détruit même les plus jeunes d’entre vous en les coupant et en les brûlant ; il vous affame et vous étouffe jusqu’à vous désespérer, vous donne d’affreux breuvages amers et vous contraint à jeûner et à souffrir de la soif. Il n’est pas comme moi, qui vous régalais d’une profusion de bonnes choses de toute sorte. » Que pourrait dire pour sa défense, à ton avis, un médecin réduit à cette triste extrémité ? Et s’il disait la vérité : « Tout cela, mes enfants, je l’ai fait pour votre santé », quelle clameur, selon toi, pousserait un tel tribunal ? Une clameur retentissante, n’est-ce pas ? Call. Je suppose que oui ; il faut bien le penser. Soc. Tu supposes donc qu’il serait absolument incapable de savoir quoi dire ? Call. Tout à fait. Soc. Pourtant, je suis certain que tel serait aussi mon sort si je comparaissais devant le tribunal. Car non seulement je n’aurais à faire valoir aucun plaisir procuré par mes soins, plaisirs qu’ils tiennent pour des services et des bienfaits, alors que je n’envie ni ceux qui les procurent ni ceux auxquels ils sont procurés, mais, si quelqu’un m’accuse soit de corrompre les jeunes gens en les plongeant dans la perplexité, soit d’injurier les plus âgés par des paroles amères, en privé ou en public, je ne pourrai ni dire la vérité en déclarant : « C’est avec justice que je dis tout cela, et c’est votre intérêt que je sers ainsi, messieurs les jurés », ni dire quoi que ce soit d’autre. Aussi, je suppose que n’importe quoi pourra m’arriver, au gré du hasard. Call. Penses-tu donc, Socrate, qu’un homme placé dans une telle situation et incapable de se défendre fasse belle figure dans une cité ? Soc. Oui, s’il possédait cette unique ressource, Calliclès, que tu as admise à plusieurs reprises : s’il s’était défendu en évitant toute parole et tout acte injustes envers les hommes comme envers les dieux. Car nous avons reconnu maintes fois que telle était la forme la plus précieuse de protection personnelle. Si l’on me convainquait d’être incapable d’assurer cette sorte de protection à moi-même ou à autrui, j’en aurais honte, que cette démonstration eût lieu devant une foule ou devant quelques personnes, ou encore d’homme à homme. Et si cette incapacité causait ma mort, j’en serais cruellement affligé. Mais si je devais périr faute de rhétorique flatteuse, je suis bien certain que tu me verrais accepter aisément la mort. Car nul ne craint le simple fait de mourir, à moins d’être entièrement dépourvu de raison et de courage ; ce que l’on craint, c’est de commettre l’injustice. Arriver dans le monde d’en bas avec l’âme chargée d’une multitude de méfaits est en effet le dernier de tous les maux. Et maintenant, si tu le permets, je voudrais te raconter une histoire afin de te montrer qu’il en est ainsi. Call. Eh bien, puisque tu as achevé tout le reste, va donc jusqu’au bout de cela aussi.", "translator": "Codex gpt-5.6-sol", "edition": "Prokopton42 non-official AI translation, 2026-09-11", "source_id": "prokopton42-codex-translation:gpt-5.6-sol:corpus-passage-translation-v1", "translation_type": "ai_generated_translation", "official_status": "non_official", "generation_model": "gpt-5.6-sol" } ], "content_checksum": "8e4ce706dbf05b4556f63b8278eb2c05077837b3d577b2249d4cf51f92cb2014" }