{ "schema": "prokopton42-public-passage-v1", "id": "socrates.plato_phaedrus", "canonical_url": "https://prokopton42.com/en/works/plato/plato-phaedrus/reference-243/", "language": "en", "title": "Socrates in Plato’s Phaedrus", "author": "Plato", "date": "c. 370-360 BCE", "summary": "Outside Athens’ walls, Plato shows Socrates improvising and then recanting a speech about love. The character becomes inspired speaker, analyst of soul, and critic of writing unable to answer questions.", "learning": "Compare Socrates’ successive roles as speaker and dialectician, analyze his palinode, and qualify Plato’s criticism of writing.", "long_summary": "After competing with Lysias, Socrates covers his head to disparage the lover, then invokes his divine sign and delivers a palinode in which desire, recollection, and beauty lead the soul toward intelligible reality. He next moves from performance to standards for knowledgeable speech.\n\nThis richness is not intellectual autobiography. Plato gives the character myths, a method of division, and an ideal of living speech. The witness illuminates several images of Socrates while placing them within a late and reflective composition.", "historical_context": "The corpus manifests do not yet establish the precise place and circumstances of composition. The images below document the author’s world or the text’s transmission. They do not claim to show the exact scene of writing.", "material_world_label": "Classical Greek world, 5th century BCE", "material_world": { "technology": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water.", "science": "Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments.", "medicine": "Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common.", "transport": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies.", "agriculture": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war.", "communication": "Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media.", "clothing": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." }, "material_world_scenes": [ { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-01.webp", "title": "Technology, science, and care", "description": "Bronze, iron, pottery, simple cranes, and shipbuilding sustain cities. Power still comes mainly from people, animals, wind, and water. Geometry, astronomy, inquiry into nature, and rational argument advance without modern measuring instruments or standardized experiments. Practitioners observe symptoms, diet, and seasons; healing sanctuaries and ritual treatment also remain common." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-02.webp", "title": "Travel and communication", "description": "Walking and animals dominate on land. Sailing ships and triremes connect islands, ports, and colonies. Public speech, messengers, and handwritten letters carry news. Theatre, the civic square, and the banquet are major social media." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-03.webp", "title": "Farming and food", "description": "Small farms, grain, vines, olives, goats, and sheep shape the diet; harvests remain vulnerable to weather and war." }, { "asset": "/assets/timeline/landmarks/03-431-bce/world-04.webp", "title": "Clothing, women and men", "description": "Women and men drape wool or linen as chitons, peploi, and cloaks. Garments are pinned, belted, and shaped by status rather than tailored like modern clothes." } ], "intellectual_tradition": { "id": "platonism", "label": "Socratic and Platonic thought" }, "period": { "id": "ancient", "label": "Antiquity" }, "languages": [ "grc", "en", "fr" ], "manifestations": [ { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_phaedrus/representations/grc.ndjson", "language": "grc", "records": 53, "role": "original_carrier", "sha256": "901e040c314fd38497d8fc217384e4a621e2dc254c326275647280013e45aee1", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_phaedrus/representations/en.ndjson", "language": "en", "records": 53, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "8d02155c4e848a351f5ce0182a00d349a5529c9279f5a3d89c02583ad9285452", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en" }, { "coverage": "complete", "file": "data/corpus/normalized/socrates/plato_phaedrus/representations/fr.ndjson", "language": "fr", "records": 53, "role": "historical_translation", "sha256": "ae3b5ba845f32eff1732bfca7cb4250a351086bd75a068ba18a0658fff0ec500", "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-02" } ], "concepts": [ { "id": "beneficence", "label": "Beneficence" }, { "id": "care_of_soul", "label": "Care of the soul" }, { "id": "desire", "label": "Desire" }, { "id": "dukkha", "label": "Dukkha" }, { "id": "education", "label": "Education" }, { "id": "elenchus", "label": "Elenchus" }, { "id": "ether_field", "label": "Ether and field" }, { "id": "faith", "label": "Faith" }, { "id": "family", "label": "Family" }, { "id": "fear", "label": "Fear" }, { "id": "friendship", "label": "Friendship" }, { "id": "god", "label": "God" }, { "id": "honestum_and_utility", "label": "Moral rightness and utility" }, { "id": "impressions_and_assent", "label": "Impressions and assent" }, { "id": "justice", "label": "Justice" }, { "id": "law", "label": "Law" }, { "id": "li_ritual_propriety", "label": "Li, ritual propriety" }, { "id": "logos_nature", "label": "Logos of nature" }, { "id": "love", "label": "Love" }, { "id": "memory", "label": "Memory" }, { "id": "messiah", "label": "Messiah" }, { "id": "nature", "label": "Nature" }, { "id": "philosophical_eros", "label": "Philosophical eros" }, { "id": "reason", "label": "Reason" }, { "id": "ressentiment", "label": "Ressentiment" }, { "id": "sin", "label": "Sin" }, { "id": "spirit", "label": "Spirit" }, { "id": "suffering", "label": "Suffering" }, { "id": "time", "label": "Time" }, { "id": "wisdom", "label": "Wisdom" } ], "source_work_ids": [ "socrates.plato_phaedrus" ], "passages": 53, "word_count": 23263, "word_counts_by_language": { "en": 23263, "fr": 23355, "grc": 17029 }, "editorial_status": "gpt_5_6_semantic_draft_v1", "structure": { "citation_scheme": "carrier-explicit-ancient-reference-v1", "kind": "native", "levels": [ { "key": "reference", "label_fr": "Référence", "label_en": "Reference" } ], "leaf_fr": "Passage", "leaf_en": "Passage" }, "canonical_passage_id": "passage:socrates.plato_phaedrus:243", "canonical_ref": "243", "canonical_parent_ref": null, "canonical_parent_id": null, "representations": [ { "language": "grc", "text": "ΣΩ. εἰ δʼ ἔστιν, ὥσπερ οὖν ἔστι, θεὸς ἤ τι θεῖον ὁ Ἔρως, οὐδὲν ἂν κακὸν εἴη, τὼ δὲ λόγω τὼ νυνδὴ περὶ αὐτοῦ εἰπέτην ὡς τοιούτου ὄντος· ταύτῃ τε οὖν ἡμαρτανέτην περὶ τὸν ἔρωτα, ἔτι τε ἡ εὐήθεια αὐτοῖν πάνυ ἀστεία, τὸ μηδὲν ὑγιὲς λέγοντε μηδὲ ἀληθὲς σεμνύνεσθαι ὡς τὶ ὄντε, εἰ ἄρα ἀνθρωπίσκους τινὰς ἐξαπατήσαντε εὐδοκιμήσετον ἐν αὐτοῖς. ἐμοὶ μὲν οὖν, ὦ φίλε, καθήρασθαι ἀνάγκη· ἔστιν δὲ τοῖς ἁμαρτάνουσι περὶ μυθολογίαν καθαρμὸς ἀρχαῖος, ὃν Ὅμηρος μὲν οὐκ ᾔσθετο, Στησίχορος δέ. τῶν γὰρ ὀμμάτων στερηθεὶς διὰ τὴν Ἑλένης κακηγορίαν οὐκ ἠγνόησεν ὥσπερ Ὅμηρος, ἀλλʼ ἅτε μουσικὸς ὢν ἔγνω τὴν αἰτίαν, καὶ ποιεῖ εὐθὺς— οὐκ ἔστʼ ἔτυμος λόγος οὗτος, οὐδʼ ἔβας ἐν νηυσὶν εὐσέλμοις, οὐδʼ ἵκεο Πέργαμα Τροίας· Stesichorus Frag. 32 Bergk καὶ ποιήσας δὴ πᾶσαν τὴν καλουμένην Παλινῳδίαν παραχρῆμα ἀνέβλεψεν. ἐγὼ οὖν σοφώτερος ἐκείνων γενήσομαι κατʼ αὐτό γε τοῦτο· πρὶν γάρ τι παθεῖν διὰ τὴν τοῦ Ἔρωτος κακηγορίαν πειράσομαι αὐτῷ ἀποδοῦναι τὴν παλινῳδίαν, γυμνῇ τῇ κεφαλῇ καὶ οὐχ ὥσπερ τότε ὑπʼ αἰσχύνης ἐγκεκαλυμμένος. ΦΑΙ. τουτωνί, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἔστιν ἅττʼ ἂν ἐμοὶ εἶπες ἡδίω. ΣΩ. καὶ γάρ, ὠγαθὲ Φαῖδρε, ἐννοεῖς ὡς ἀναιδῶς εἴρησθον τὼ λόγω, οὗτός τε καὶ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ βιβλίου ῥηθείς. εἰ γὰρ ἀκούων τις τύχοι ἡμῶν γεννάδας καὶ πρᾷος τὸ ἦθος, ἑτέρου δὲ τοιούτου ἐρῶν ἢ καὶ πρότερόν ποτε ἐρασθείς, λεγόντων ὡς διὰ σμικρὰ μεγάλας ἔχθρας οἱ ἐρασταὶ ἀναιροῦνται καὶ ἔχουσι πρὸς τὰ παιδικὰ φθονερῶς τε καὶ βλαβερῶς, πῶς οὐκ ἂν οἴει αὐτὸν ἡγεῖσθαι ἀκούειν ἐν ναύταις που τεθραμμένων καὶ οὐδένα ἐλεύθερον ἔρωτα ἑωρακότων, πολλοῦ δʼ ἂν δεῖν ἡμῖν ὁμολογεῖν ἃ ψέγομεν τὸν ἔρωτα; ΦΑΙ. ἴσως νὴ Δίʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες. ΣΩ. τοῦτόν γε τοίνυν ἔγωγε αἰσχυνόμενος, καὶ αὐτὸν τὸν ἔρωτα δεδιώς, ἐπιθυμῶ ποτίμῳ λόγῳ οἷον ἁλμυρὰν ἀκοὴν ἀποκλύσασθαι· συμβουλεύω δὲ καὶ Λυσίᾳ ὅτι τάχιστα γράψαι ὡς χρὴ ἐραστῇ μᾶλλον ἢ μὴ ἐρῶντι ἐκ τῶν ὁμοίων χαρίζεσθαι. ΦΑΙ. ἀλλʼ εὖ ἴσθι ὅτι ἕξει τοῦθʼ οὕτω· σοῦ γὰρ εἰπόντος τὸν τοῦ ἐραστοῦ ἔπαινον, πᾶσα ἀνάγκη Λυσίαν ὑπʼ ἐμοῦ ἀναγκασθῆναι γράψαι αὖ περὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ λόγον. ΣΩ. τοῦτο μὲν πιστεύω, ἕωσπερ ἂν ᾖς ὃς εἶ. ΦΑΙ. λέγε τοίνυν θαρρῶν. ΣΩ. ποῦ δή μοι ὁ παῖς πρὸς ὃν ἔλεγον; ἵνα καὶ τοῦτο ἀκούσῃ, καὶ μὴ ἀνήκοος ὢν φθάσῃ χαρισάμενος τῷ μὴ ἐρῶντι. ΦΑΙ. οὗτος παρά σοι μάλα πλησίον ἀεὶ πάρεστιν, ὅταν σὺ βούλῃ.", "edition": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc", "translation_type": "original" }, { "language": "en", "text": "Socrates. If Love is, as indeed he is, a god or something divine, he can be nothing evil; but the two speeches just now said that he was evil. So then they sinned against Love; but their foolishness was really very funny besides, for while they were saying nothing sound or true, they put on airs as though they amounted to something, if they could cheat some mere manikins and gain honor among them. Now I, my friend, must purify myself; and for those who have sinned in matters of mythology there is an ancient purification, unknown to Homer, but known to Stesichorus. For when he was stricken with blindness for speaking ill of Helen, he was not, like Homer, ignorant of the reason, but since he was educated, he knew it and straightway he writes the poem: That saying is not true; thou didst not go within the well-oared ships, nor didst thou come to the walls of Troy Stesichorus Frag. 32 Bergk and when he had written all the poem, which is called the recantation, he saw again at once. Now I will be wiser than they in just this point: before suffering any punishment for speaking ill of Love, I will try to atone by my recantation, with my head bare this time, not, as before, covered through shame. Phaedrus. This indeed, Socrates, is the most delightful thing you could say. Socrates. Just consider, my good Phaedrus, how shameless the two speeches were, both this of mine and the one you read out of the book. For if any man of noble and gentle nature, one who was himself in love with another of the same sort, or who had ever been loved by such a one, had happened to hear us saying that lovers take up violent enmity because of small matters and are jealously disposed and harmful to the beloved, don’t you think he would imagine he was listening to people brought up among low sailors, who had never seen a generous love? Would he not refuse utterly to assent to our censure of Love? Phaedrus. I declare, Socrates, perhaps he would. Socrates. I therefore, because I am ashamed at the thought of this man and am afraid of Love himself, wish to wash out the brine from my ears with the water of a sweet discourse. And I advise Lysias also to write as soon as he can, that other things being equal, the lover should be favored rather than the non-lover. Phaedrus. Be assured that he will do so: for when you have spoken the praise of the lover, Lysias must of course be compelled by me to write another discourse on the same subject. Socrates. I believe you, so long as you are what you are. Phaedrus. Speak then without fear. Socrates. Where is the youth to whom I was speaking? He must hear this also, lest if he do not hear it, he accept a non-lover before we can stop him. Phaedrus. Here he is, always close at hand whenever you want him.", "translator": "Benjamin Jowett", "edition": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en", "source_id": "perseus-plato-phaedrus-en", "translation_type": "historical_human_translation" }, { "language": "fr", "text": "[243a] rien de juste et de vrai, de se donner l’air d’être quelque chose parce qu’ils en imposeraient peut-être aux esprits frivoles et déroberaient leurs suffrages. Pour moi, je me crois obligé à une expiation sérieuse. Or, ceux qui se trompent en matière de théologie n’ont pour réparer leur faute qu’une sorte d’expiation déjà bien ancienne, qu’Homère n’a point connue, mais que Stésichore a pratiquée. En effet, privé de la vue pour avoir osé flétrir la mémoire d’Hélène, il ne méconnut point, comme Homère, la cause de son malheur ; il la reconnut, en véritable ami des muses, et publia aussitôt ces vers : Non, ce récit n’est point vrai ; non, jamais tu ne montas Les superbes vaisseaux des Troyens ; [243b] jamais tu n’entras dans Pergame. Et après avoir composé toute cette palinodie, comme on l’appela, il recouvra subitement la vue. Je veux encore être plus sage, au moins sous un rapport ; car je n’attendrai pas que l’Amour me punisse d’avoir mal parlé de lui ; je préviendrai ses coups par une palinodie. Cette fois du moins je puis parler la tête découverte, et la honte ne me fera plus cacher mon visage. PHÈDRE. Tu ne pouvais rien m’annoncer de plus agréable. [243c] SOCRATE. Tu conçois en effet, mon cher Phèdre, l’extrême impertinence de nos premiers discours. Si quelque homme bien né et bien élevé eût éprouvé dans sa vie une semblable passion ou en eût été l’objet, et que, venant par hasard à nous écouter, il nous eût entendus soutenir que les amans s’abandonnent pour des causes légères à de violentes inimitiés, qu’ils tiennent les objets de leur amour sous une tyrannie jalouse et qu’ils leur nuisent, n’eût-il pas cru qu’élevés dans la compagnie des matelots, nous n’avons aucune idée de l’amour des honnêtes gens ? [243d] et n’eût-il pas été bien loin de passer condamnation sur tous les reproches que nous avons faits à l’Amour ? PHÈDRE. Peut-être bien, Socrate. SOCRATE. Craignant donc la censure de cet homme et plus encore la vengeance de l’Amour, je veux corriger l’amertume de mes premiers propos par un discours plus doux. Et quant à Lysias, je lui conseille de prouver bientôt, dans un autre discours, que par un juste retour il faut préférer l’amant passionné à l’ami sans amour. PHÈDRE. Sois sûr qu’il n’y manquera pas ; car, après t’avoir entendu faire l’éloge de l’Amour, il faudra bien que j’oblige [243e] Lysias à traiter le même sujet à sa manière. SOCRATE. À moins que tu ne cesses d’être Phèdre, tu en viendras certainement à bout. PHÈDRE. Ainsi que rien ne t’arrête ; parle enfin. SOCRATE. Mais où donc est l’enfant avec qui je m’entretenais tout à l’heure ? qu’il entende aussi ce nouveau discours, et qu’il n’aille pas, faute de connaître le pour et le contre, se jeter trop vite dans les bras de l’indifférent. PHÈDRE. Cet enfant n’est pas loin, et il sera toujours près de toi quand tu le désireras. SOCRATE. Figure-toi donc, bel enfant,", "translator": "Victor Cousin", "edition": "wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-02", "source_id": "wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-02", "translation_type": "historical_human_translation" } ], "content_checksum": "e21652ff18e0aa5f822d999bf88a7842b4677d2347422df5dbba7bd981dea3b6" }