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Plato
Philebus Passage 67
Passage 57 of 57
Canonical reference 67
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-philebus-grc
ΠΡΩ. εἶπες γὰρ οὖν. ΣΩ. καὶ μετὰ ταῦτά γε πάντων ἱκανώτατα τούτοιν οὐδέτερον ἱκανὸν ἐφάνη. ΠΡΩ. ἀληθέστατα. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν παντάπασιν ἐν τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ καὶ νοῦς ἀπήλλακτο καὶ ἡδονὴ μή τοι τἀγαθόν γε αὐτὸ μηδʼ ἕτερον αὐτοῖν εἶναι, στερομένοιν αὐταρκείας καὶ τῆς τοῦ ἱκανοῦ καὶ τελέου δυνάμεως; ΠΡΩ. ὀρθότατα. ΣΩ. φανέντος δέ γε ἄλλου τρίτου κρείττονος τούτοιν ἑκατέρου, μυρίῳ γʼ αὖ νοῦς ἡδονῆς οἰκειότερον καὶ προσφυέστερον πέφανται νῦν τῇ τοῦ νικῶντος ἰδέᾳ. ΠΡΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ; ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν πέμπτον κατὰ τὴν κρίσιν, ἣν νῦν ὁ λόγος ἀπεφήνατο, γίγνοιτʼ ἂν ἡ τῆς ἡδονῆς δύναμις. ΠΡΩ. ἔοικεν. ΣΩ. πρῶτον δέ γε οὐδʼ ἂν οἱ πάντες βόες τε καὶ ἵπποι καὶ τἆλλα σύμπαντα θηρία φῶσι τῷ τὸ χαίρειν διώκειν· οἷς πιστεύοντες, ὥσπερ μάντεις ὄρνισιν, οἱ πολλοὶ κρίνουσι τὰς ἡδονὰς εἰς τὸ ζῆν ἡμῖν εὖ κρατίστας εἶναι, καὶ τοὺς θηρίων ἔρωτας οἴονται κυρίους εἶναι μάρτυρας μᾶλλον ἢ τοὺς τῶν ἐν μούσῃ φιλοσόφῳ μεμαντευμένων ἑκάστοτε λόγων. ΠΡΩ. ἀληθέστατα, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰρῆσθαί σοι νῦν ἤδη φαμὲν ἅπαντες. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἀφίετέ με; ΠΡΩ. σμικρὸν ἔτι τὸ λοιπόν, ὦ Σώκρατες· οὐ γὰρ δήπου σύ γε ἀπερεῖς πρότερος ἡμῶν, ὑπομνήσω δέ σε τὰ λειπόμενα.
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-philebus-en
Pro. Yes, that is what you said. Soc. And next it was most sufficiently proved that each of these two was insufficient. Pro. Very true. Soc. In this argument, then, both mind and pleasure were set aside; neither of them is the absolute good, since they are devoid of self-sufficiency, adequacy, and perfection? Pro. Quite right. Soc. And on the appearance of a third competitor, better than either of these, mind is now found to be ten thousand times more akin than pleasure to the victor. Pro. Certainly. Soc. Then, according to the judgement which has now been given by our discussion, the power of pleasure would be fifth. Pro. So it seems. Soc. But not first, even if all the cattle and horses and other beasts in the world, in their pursuit of enjoyment, so assert. Trusting in them, as augurs trust in birds, the many judge that pleasures are the greatest blessings in life, and they imagine that the lusts of beasts are better witnesses than are the aspirations and thoughts inspired by the philosophic muse. Pro. Socrates, we all now declare that what you have said is perfectly true. Soc. Then you will let me go? Pro. There is still a little left, Socrates. I am sure you will not give up before we do, and I will remind you of what remains.
French AI-generated translation, non-official
Codex gpt-5.6-sol · Non-official working translation · 2026-09-11
Pro. Oui, c’est ce que tu as dit. Soc. Ensuite, il a été prouvé de la manière la plus suffisante que chacun de ces deux était insuffisant. Pro. C’est tout à fait vrai. Soc. Dans cet argument, l’intellect et le plaisir ont donc tous deux été écartés ; ni l’un ni l’autre n’est le bien absolu, puisqu’ils sont dépourvus d’autosuffisance, d’adéquation et de perfection. Pro. Tout à fait juste. Soc. Et lorsqu’un troisième concurrent, meilleur que chacun d’eux, est apparu, l’intellect s’est révélé dix mille fois plus apparenté que le plaisir au vainqueur. Pro. Certainement. Soc. Ainsi, selon le jugement que vient de rendre notre discussion, la puissance du plaisir occuperait le cinquième rang. Pro. À ce qu’il semble. Soc. Mais non le premier, même si tous les bovins, les chevaux et les autres bêtes du monde l’affirment dans leur quête de jouissance. Se fiant à eux comme les devins se fient aux oiseaux, la multitude juge que les plaisirs sont les plus grands biens de la vie, et elle imagine que les appétits des bêtes sont de meilleurs témoins que les aspirations et les pensées inspirées par la muse philosophique. Pro. Socrate, nous déclarons tous maintenant que ce que tu as dit est parfaitement vrai. Soc. Vous me laisserez donc partir ? Pro. Il reste encore un peu à faire, Socrate. Je suis certain que tu ne renonceras pas avant nous, et je te rappellerai ce qui reste.
Concepts in this passage
Anger
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Dialectic
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Intelligible forms
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Friendship
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Judgment
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Logos of nature
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Philosophical eros
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Pleasure
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Reason
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Self-sufficiency
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Simple sufficiency
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Sin
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Time
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Wisdom
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