Public domain
The work and displayed translations are recorded as public domain or from an open transcription.
Plato
Socrates in Plato’s Phaedrus Passage 275
Passage 49 of 53
Canonical reference 275
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc
ΣΩ. ὁ δʼ εἶπεν· ὦ τεχνικώτατε Θεύθ, ἄλλος μὲν τεκεῖν δυνατὸς τὰ τέχνης, ἄλλος δὲ κρῖναι τίνʼ ἔχει μοῖραν βλάβης τε καὶ ὠφελίας τοῖς μέλλουσι χρῆσθαι· καὶ νῦν σύ, πατὴρ ὢν γραμμάτων, διʼ εὔνοιαν τοὐναντίον εἶπες ἢ δύναται. τοῦτο γὰρ τῶν μαθόντων λήθην μὲν ἐν ψυχαῖς παρέξει μνήμης ἀμελετησίᾳ, ἅτε διὰ πίστιν γραφῆς ἔξωθεν ὑπʼ ἀλλοτρίων τύπων, οὐκ ἔνδοθεν αὐτοὺς ὑφʼ αὑτῶν ἀναμιμνῃσκομένους· οὔκουν μνήμης ἀλλὰ ὑπομνήσεως φάρμακον ηὗρες. σοφίας δὲ τοῖς μαθηταῖς δόξαν, οὐκ ἀλήθειαν πορίζεις· πολυήκοοι γάρ σοι γενόμενοι ἄνευ διδαχῆς πολυγνώμονες εἶναι δόξουσιν, ἀγνώμονες ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πλῆθος ὄντες, καὶ χαλεποὶ συνεῖναι, δοξόσοφοι γεγονότες ἀντὶ σοφῶν. ΦΑΙ. ὦ Σώκρατες, ῥᾳδίως σὺ Αἰγυπτίους καὶ ὁποδαποὺς ἂν ἐθέλῃς λόγους ποιεῖς. ΣΩ. οἱ δέ γʼ, ὦ φίλε, ἐν τῷ τοῦ Διὸς τοῦ Δωδωναίου ἱερῷ δρυὸς λόγους ἔφησαν μαντικοὺς πρώτους γενέσθαι. τοῖς μὲν οὖν τότε, ἅτε οὐκ οὖσι σοφοῖς ὥσπερ ὑμεῖς οἱ νέοι, ἀπέχρη δρυὸς καὶ πέτρας ἀκούειν ὑπʼ εὐηθείας, εἰ μόνον ἀληθῆ λέγοιεν· σοὶ δʼ ἴσως διαφέρει τίς ὁ λέγων καὶ ποδαπός. οὐ γὰρ ἐκεῖνο μόνον σκοπεῖς, εἴτε οὕτως εἴτε ἄλλως ἔχει; ΦΑΙ. ὀρθῶς ἐπέπληξας, καί μοι δοκεῖ περὶ γραμμάτων ἔχειν ᾗπερ ὁ Θηβαῖος λέγει. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὁ τέχνην οἰόμενος ἐν γράμμασι καταλιπεῖν, καὶ αὖ ὁ παραδεχόμενος ὥς τι σαφὲς καὶ βέβαιον ἐκ γραμμάτων ἐσόμενον, πολλῆς ἂν εὐηθείας γέμοι καὶ τῷ ὄντι τὴν Ἄμμωνος μαντείαν ἀγνοοῖ, πλέον τι οἰόμενος εἶναι λόγους γεγραμμένους τοῦ τὸν εἰδότα ὑπομνῆσαι περὶ ὧν ἂν ᾖ τὰ γεγραμμένα. ΦΑΙ. ὀρθότατα. ΣΩ. δεινὸν γάρ που, ὦ Φαῖδρε, τοῦτʼ ἔχει γραφή, καὶ ὡς ἀληθῶς ὅμοιον ζωγραφίᾳ. καὶ γὰρ τὰ ἐκείνης ἔκγονα ἕστηκε μὲν ὡς ζῶντα, ἐὰν δʼ ἀνέρῃ τι, σεμνῶς πάνυ σιγᾷ. ταὐτὸν δὲ καὶ οἱ λόγοι· δόξαις μὲν ἂν ὥς τι φρονοῦντας αὐτοὺς λέγειν, ἐὰν δέ τι ἔρῃ τῶν λεγομένων βουλόμενος μαθεῖν, ἕν τι σημαίνει μόνον ταὐτὸν ἀεί. ὅταν δὲ ἅπαξ γραφῇ, κυλινδεῖται μὲν πανταχοῦ πᾶς λόγος ὁμοίως παρὰ τοῖς ἐπαΐουσιν, ὡς δʼ αὕτως παρʼ οἷς οὐδὲν προσήκει, καὶ οὐκ ἐπίσταται λέγειν οἷς δεῖ γε καὶ μή. πλημμελούμενος δὲ καὶ οὐκ ἐν δίκῃ λοιδορηθεὶς τοῦ πατρὸς ἀεὶ δεῖται βοηθοῦ· αὐτὸς γὰρ οὔτʼ ἀμύνασθαι οὔτε βοηθῆσαι δυνατὸς αὑτῷ. ΦΑΙ. καὶ ταῦτά σοι ὀρθότατα εἴρηται.
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-phaedrus-en
Socrates. But Thamus replied, Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess. For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise. Phaedrus. Socrates, you easily make up stories of Egypt or any country you please. Socrates. They used to say, my friend, that the words of the oak in the holy place of Zeus at Dodona were the first prophetic utterances. The people of that time, not being so wise as you young folks, were content in their simplicity to hear an oak or a rock, provided only it spoke the truth; but to you, perhaps, it makes a difference who the speaker is and where he comes from, for you do not consider only whether his words are true or not. Phaedrus. Your rebuke is just; and I think the Theban is right in what he says about letters. Socrates. He who thinks, then, that he has left behind him any art in writing, and he who receives it in the belief that anything in writing will be clear and certain, would be an utterly simple person, and in truth ignorant of the prophecy of Ammon, if he thinks written words are of any use except to remind him who knows the matter about which they are written. Phaedrus. Very true. Socrates. Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their sayings, they always say only one and the same thing. And every word, when once it is written, is bandied about, alike among those who understand and those who have no interest in it, and it knows not to whom to speak or not to speak; when ill-treated or unjustly reviled it always needs its father to help it; for it has no power to protect or help itself. Phaedrus. You are quite right about that, too.
French
Victor Cousin · wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-02
[275a] et toi, père de l’écriture, par une bienveillance naturelle pour ton ouvrage, tu l’as vu tout autre qu’il n’est : il ne produira que l’oubli dans l’esprit de ceux qui apprennent, en leur faisant négliger la mémoire. En effet, ils laisseront à ces caractères étrangers le soin de leur rappeler ce qu’ils auront confié à l’écriture, et n’en garderont eux-mêmes aucun souvenir. Tu n’as donc point trouvé un moyen pour la mémoire, mais pour la simple réminiscence, et tu n’offres à tes disciples que le nom de la science sans la réalité ; car, lorsqu’ils auront lu beaucoup de choses [275b] sans maîtres, ils se croiront de nombreuses connaissances, tout ignorants qu’ils seront pour la plupart, et la fausse opinion qu’ils auront de leur science les rendra insupportables dans le commerce de la vie. PHÈDRE. Mon cher Socrate, tu excelles à faire des discours égyptiens, et de tous les pays du monde si tu voulais. SOCRATE. Mon cher ami, les prêtres du temple de Jupiter de Dodone disent que les premières prophéties venaient d’un chêne : ces hommes antiques n’étaient pas si savants que vous autres modernes, et ils consentaient bien, dans leur simplicité, à n’écouter qu’un chêne ou une pierre, pourvu que le chêne ou la pierre [275c] dît vrai. Toi, tout au contraire, tu demandes quel est celui qui parle et d’où il est ; tu n’examines pas seulement si ce qu’il dit est véritable ou faux. PHÈDRE. Tu as raison de me reprendre, et il me semble qu’au sujet de l’écriture le Thébain a raison. SOCRATE. Celui donc qui prétend laisser l’art consigné dans les pages d’un livre, et celui qui croit l’y puiser, comme s’il pouvait sortir d’un écrit quelque chose de clair et de solide, me paraît d’une grande simplicité ; et vraiment il ignore l’oracle d’Ammon, s’il croit que des discours [275d] écrits soient quelque chose de plus qu’un moyen de réminiscence pour celui qui connaît déjà le sujet qu’ils traitent. PHÈDRE. C’est fort juste. SOCRATE. Car voici l’inconvénient de l’écriture, mon cher Phèdre, comme de la peinture. Les productions de ce dernier art semblent vivantes ; mais interrogez-les, elles vous répondront par un grave silence. Il en est de même des discours écrits : vous croiriez, à les entendre, qu’ils sont bien savants ; mais questionnez-les sur quelqu’une des choses qu’ils contiennent, ils vous feront toujours la même réponse. [275e] Une fois écrit, un discours roule de tous côtés, dans les mains de ceux qui le comprennent comme de ceux pour qui il n’est pas fait, et il ne sait pas même à qui il doit parler, avec qui il doit se taire. Méprisé ou attaqué injustement, il a toujours besoin que son père vienne à son secours ; car il ne peut ni résister ni se secourir lui-même. PHÈDRE. C’est encore parfaitement juste.
Concepts in this passage
Affects
View detailed page
Filter the library
Anger
View detailed page
Filter the library
Care of the soul
View detailed page
Filter the library
Courage
View detailed page
Filter the library
Discipleship
View detailed page
Filter the library
Elenchus
View detailed page
Filter the library
Ether and field
View detailed page
Filter the library
Faith
View detailed page
Filter the library
Family
View detailed page
Filter the library
Friendship
View detailed page
Filter the library
Holiness
View detailed page
Filter the library
Judgment
View detailed page
Filter the library
Justice
View detailed page
Filter the library
Justice and care for the vulnerable
View detailed page
Filter the library
Knowledge
View detailed page
Filter the library
Logos of nature
View detailed page
Filter the library
Memory
View detailed page
Filter the library
Messiah
View detailed page
Filter the library
Mode
View detailed page
Filter the library
Nature
View detailed page
Filter the library
Philosophical eros
View detailed page
Filter the library
Philosophical training
View detailed page
Filter the library
Prophecy
View detailed page
Filter the library
Reason
View detailed page
Filter the library
Recollection
View detailed page
Filter the library
Ren, humaneness
View detailed page
Filter the library
Roles and relationships
View detailed page
Filter the library
Service
View detailed page
Filter the library
Sin
View detailed page
Filter the library
Spirit
View detailed page
Filter the library
Time
View detailed page
Filter the library
Truth
View detailed page
Filter the library
Wisdom
View detailed page
Filter the library
Worship
View detailed page
Filter the library