Public domain
The work and displayed translations are recorded as public domain or from an open transcription.
Plato
Symposium Passage 204
Passage 33 of 52
Canonical reference 204
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-symposium-grc
ἔχει γὰρ ὧδε. θεῶν οὐδεὶς φιλοσοφεῖ οὐδʼ ἐπιθυμεῖ σοφὸς γενέσθαι - ἔστι γάρ - οὐδʼ εἴ τις ἄλλος σοφός, οὐ φιλοσοφεῖ. οὐδʼ αὖ οἱ ἀμαθεῖς φιλοσοφοῦσιν οὐδʼ ἐπιθυμοῦσι σοφοὶ γενέσθαι· αὐτὸ γὰρ τοῦτό ἐστι χαλεπὸν ἀμαθία, τὸ μὴ ὄντα καλὸν κἀγαθὸν μηδὲ φρόνιμον δοκεῖν αὑτῷ εἶναι ἱκανόν. οὔκουν ἐπιθυμεῖ ὁ μὴ οἰόμενος ἐνδεὴς εἶναι οὗ ἂν μὴ οἴηται ἐπιδεῖσθαι. τίνες οὖν, ἔφην ἐγώ, ὦ Διοτίμα, οἱ φιλοσοφοῦντες, εἰ μήτε οἱ σοφοὶ μήτε οἱ ἀμαθεῖς; δῆλον δή, ἔφη, τοῦτό γε ἤδη καὶ παιδί, ὅτι οἱ μεταξὺ τούτων ἀμφοτέρων, ὧν ἂν εἴη καὶ ὁ Ἔρως. ἔστιν γὰρ δὴ τῶν καλλίστων ἡ σοφία, Ἔρως δʼ ἐστὶν ἔρως περὶ τὸ καλόν, ὥστε ἀναγκαῖον ἔρωτα φιλόσοφον εἶναι, φιλόσοφον δὲ ὄντα μεταξὺ εἶναι σοφοῦ καὶ ἀμαθοῦς. αἰτία δὲ αὐτῷ καὶ τούτων ἡ γένεσις· πατρὸς μὲν γὰρ σοφοῦ ἐστι καὶ εὐπόρου, μητρὸς δὲ οὐ σοφῆς καὶ ἀπόρου. ἡ μὲν οὖν φύσις τοῦ δαίμονος, ὦ φίλε Σώκρατες, αὕτη· ὃν δὲ σὺ ᾠήθης ἔρωτα εἶναι, θαυμαστὸν οὐδὲν ἔπαθες. ᾠήθης δέ, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ τεκμαιρομένῃ ἐξ ὧν σὺ λέγεις, τὸ ἐρώμενον ἔρωτα εἶναι, οὐ τὸ ἐρῶν· διὰ ταῦτά σοι οἶμαι πάγκαλος ἐφαίνετο ὁ Ἔρως. καὶ γὰρ ἔστι τὸ ἐραστὸν τὸ τῷ ὄντι καλὸν καὶ ἁβρὸν καὶ τέλεον καὶ μακαριστόν· τὸ δέ γε ἐρῶν ἄλλην ἰδέαν τοιαύτην ἔχον, οἵαν ἐγὼ διῆλθον. καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον, εἶεν δή, ὦ ξένη, καλῶς γὰρ λέγεις· τοιοῦτος ὢν ὁ Ἔρως τίνα χρείαν ἔχει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις; τοῦτο δὴ μετὰ ταῦτʼ, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, πειράσομαί σε διδάξαι. ἔστι μὲν γὰρ δὴ τοιοῦτος καὶ οὕτω γεγονὼς ὁ Ἔρως, ἔστι δὲ τῶν καλῶν, ὡς σὺ φῄς. εἰ δέ τις ἡμᾶς ἔροιτο· τί τῶν καλῶν ἐστιν ὁ Ἔρως, ὦ Σώκρατές τε καὶ Διοτίμα; ὧδε δὲ σαφέστερον· ἐρᾷ ὁ ἐρῶν τῶν καλῶν· τί ἐρᾷ; καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον ὅτι γενέσθαι αὑτῷ. ἀλλʼ ἔτι ποθεῖ, ἔφη, ἡ ἀπόκρισις ἐρώτησιν τοιάνδε· τί ἔσται ἐκείνῳ ᾧ ἂν γένηται τὰ καλά; οὐ πάνυ ἔφην ἔτι ἔχειν ἐγὼ πρὸς ταύτην τὴν ἐρώτησιν προχείρως ἀποκρίνασθαι. ἀλλʼ, ἔφη, ὥσπερ ἂν εἴ τις μεταβαλὼν ἀντὶ τοῦ καλοῦ τῷ ἀγαθῷ χρώμενος πυνθάνοιτο· φέρε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐρᾷ ὁ ἐρῶν τῶν ἀγαθῶν· τί ἐρᾷ; γενέσθαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, αὑτῷ. καὶ τί ἔσται ἐκείνῳ ᾧ ἂν γένηται τἀγαθά; τοῦτʼ εὐπορώτερον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἔχω ἀποκρίνασθαι, ὅτι εὐδαίμων ἔσται.
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-symposium-en
The position is this: no gods ensue wisdom or desire to be made wise; such they are already; nor does anyone else that is wise ensue it. Neither do the ignorant ensue wisdom, nor desire to be made wise: in this very point is ignorance distressing, when a person who is not comely or worthy or intelligent is satisfied with himself. The man who does not feel himself defective has no desire for that whereof he feels no defect. Who then, Diotima, I asked, are the followers of wisdom, if they are neither the wise nor the ignorant? Why, a child could tell by this time, she answered, that they are the intermediate sort, and amongst these also is Love. For wisdom has to do with the fairest things, and Love is a love directed to what is fair; so that Love must needs be a friend of wisdom, and, as such, must be between wise and ignorant. This again is a result for which he has to thank his origin: for while he comes of a wise and resourceful father, his mother is unwise and resourceless. Such, my good Socrates, is the nature of this spirit. That you should have formed your other notion of Love is no surprising accident. You supposed, if I am to take your own words as evidence, that the beloved and not the lover was Love. This led you, I fancy, to hold that Love is all-beautiful. The lovable, indeed, is the truly beautiful, tender, perfect, and heaven-blest; but the lover is of a different type, in accordance with the account I have given. Upon this I observed: Very well then, madam, you are right; but if Love is such as you describe him, of what use is he to mankind? That is the next question, Socrates, she replied, on which I will try to enlighten you. While Love is of such nature and origin as I have related, he is also set on beautiful things, as you say. Now, suppose some one were to ask us: In what respect is he Love of beautiful things, Socrates and Diotima? But let me put the question more clearly thus: What is the love of the lover of beautiful things? That they may be his, I replied. But your answer craves a further query, she said, such as this: What will he have who gets beautiful things? This question I declared I was quite unable now to answer offhand. Well, she proceeded, imagine that the object is changed, and the inquiry is made about the good instead of the beautiful. Come, Socrates (I shall say), what is the love of the lover of good things? That they may be his, I replied. And what will he have who gets good things? I can make more shift to answer this, I said; he will be happy.
French
Victor Cousin · wikisource-cousin-symposium-fr-01
[204a] il reste sur la limite, et voici pourquoi : aucun dieu ne philosophe et ne songe à devenir sage, attendu qu’il l’est déjà ; et en général quiconque est sage n’a pas besoin de philosopher. Autant en dirons-nous des ignorants : ils ne sauraient philosopher ni vouloir devenir sages : l’ignorance a précisément l’inconvénient de rendre contents d’eux-mêmes des gens qui ne sont cependant ni beaux, ni bons, ni sages ; car enfin nul ne désire les choses dont il ne se croit point dépourvu. - Mais, Diotime, lui dis-je, quels sont donc les gens qui font de la philosophie, si ce ne sont ni les sages ni les ignorants ? [204b] - Il est tout simple, même pour un enfant, répondit-elle, que ce sont ceux qui tiennent le milieu entre les uns et les autres, et l’Amour est de ce nombre. La sagesse est une des plus belles choses du monde, or l’Amour est amoureux de ce qui est beau, d’où il suit que l’Amour est amoureux de la sagesse, c’est-à-dire philosophe, et qu’à ce titre il tient le milieu entre sage et ignorant. Tout cela, par le fait de sa naissance : car il vient d’un père sage et qui est dans l’abondance, et d’une mère qui n’est ni l’un ni l’autre. Telle est, mon cher Socrate, la nature de ce démon. [204c] Quant à l’idée que tu t’en formais, elle ne me surprend point. Tu te figurais, si j’ai bien saisi le sens de tes paroles, que l’Amour est l’objet aimé, non le sujet aimant ; et c’est, je pense, pour cela que l’Amour t’a semblé si beau ; car tout objet aimable est par cela même beau, charmant, accompli, céleste ; mais ce qui aime doit être conçu autrement, et je l’ai peint sous ses vraies couleurs. - Eh bien, soit, étrangère. Tu raisonnes à merveille : mais l’Amour étant tel que tu viens de le dire, de quelle utilité est-il aux hommes ? [204d] - C’est à présent, Socrate, reprit-elle, ce que je vais tâcher de t’apprendre. Nous savons ce que c’est que l’Amour, d’où il vient, et que la beauté, comme tu le dis, est son objet. Si quelqu’un maintenant venait nous dire : Socrate, Diotime, qu’est-ce que l’amour de la beauté ? Ou, pour me faire mieux entendre : Celui qui aime ce qui est beau, que lui veut-il ? - Il veut se l’approprier, répondis-je. - Cette réponse attend une nouvelle question, dit-elle : s’il se l’approprie, que lui en adviendra-t-il ? - Je convins que je n’étais pas en état de répondre à cela. [204e] - Eh bien, reprit-elle, si l’on change de terme, et qu’en mettant le bon à la place du beau on te demande : Socrate, celui qui aime ce qui est bon, que lui veut-il ? - Il veut se l’approprier. - Et s’il se l’approprie, que lui en adviendra-t-il ? - Je trouve, lui dis-je, la réponse plus facile cette fois : c’est qu’il deviendra heureux.
Concepts in this passage
Anger
View detailed page
Filter the library
Aporia
View detailed page
Filter the library
Desire
View detailed page
Filter the library
Dukkha
View detailed page
Filter the library
Education
View detailed page
Filter the library
Ether and field
View detailed page
Filter the library
Faith
View detailed page
Filter the library
Family
View detailed page
Filter the library
Intelligible forms
View detailed page
Filter the library
Friendship
View detailed page
Filter the library
God
View detailed page
Filter the library
Human wisdom
View detailed page
Filter the library
Impressions and assent
View detailed page
Filter the library
Justice and care for the vulnerable
View detailed page
Filter the library
Law
View detailed page
Filter the library
Love
View detailed page
Filter the library
Messiah
View detailed page
Filter the library
Mindfulness
View detailed page
Filter the library
Nature
View detailed page
Filter the library
Philosophical eros
View detailed page
Filter the library
Prayer
View detailed page
Filter the library
Reason
View detailed page
Filter the library
Roles and relationships
View detailed page
Filter the library
Service
View detailed page
Filter the library
Sin
View detailed page
Filter the library
Spirit
View detailed page
Filter the library
Time
View detailed page
Filter the library
Virtue
View detailed page
Filter the library
Wisdom
View detailed page
Filter the library