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Plato
Laches Passage 194
Passage 17 of 24
Canonical reference 194
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-laches-grc
ΣΩ. τῷ λόγῳ ὃς καρτερεῖν κελεύει. εἰ οὖν βούλει, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐπὶ τῇ ζητήσει ἐπιμείνωμέν τε καὶ καρτερήσωμεν, ἵνα καὶ μὴ ἡμῶν αὐτὴ ἡ ἀνδρεία καταγελάσῃ, ὅτι οὐκ ἀνδρείως αὐτὴν ζητοῦμεν, εἰ ἄρα πολλάκις αὐτὴ ἡ καρτέρησίς ἐστιν ἀνδρεία. ΛΑ. ἐγὼ μὲν ἕτοιμος, ὦ Σώκρατες, μὴ προαφίστασθαι. καίτοι ἀήθης γʼ εἰμὶ τῶν τοιούτων λόγων· ἀλλά τίς με καὶ φιλονικία εἴληφεν πρὸς τὰ εἰρημένα, καὶ ὡς ἀληθῶς ἀγανακτῶ εἰ οὑτωσὶ ἃ νοῶ μὴ οἷός τʼ εἰμὶ εἰπεῖν. νοεῖν μὲν γὰρ ἔμοιγε δοκῶ περὶ ἀνδρείας ὅτι ἔστιν, οὐκ οἶδα δʼ ὅπῃ με ἄρτι διέφυγεν, ὥστε μὴ συλλαβεῖν τῷ λόγῳ αὐτὴν καὶ εἰπεῖν ὅτι ἔστιν. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν, ὦ φίλε, τὸν ἀγαθὸν κυνηγέτην μεταθεῖν χρὴ καὶ μὴ ἀνιέναι. ΛΑ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. ΣΩ. βούλει οὖν καὶ Νικίαν τόνδε παρακαλῶμεν ἐπὶ τὸ κυνηγέσιον, εἴ τι ἡμῶν εὐπορώτερός ἐστιν; ΛΑ. βούλομαι· πῶς γὰρ οὔ; ΣΩ. ἴθι δή, ὦ Νικία, ἀνδράσι φίλοις χειμαζομένοις ἐν λόγῳ καὶ ἀποροῦσιν βοήθησον, εἴ τινα ἔχεις δύναμιν. τὰ μὲν γὰρ δὴ ἡμέτερα ὁρᾷς ὡς ἄπορα· σὺ δʼ εἰπὼν ὅτι ἡγῇ ἀνδρείαν εἶναι, ἡμᾶς τε τῆς ἀπορίας ἔκλυσαι καὶ αὐτὸς ἃ νοεῖς τῷ λόγῳ βεβαίωσαι. ΝΙ. δοκεῖτε τοίνυν μοι πάλαι οὐ καλῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁρίζεσθαι τὴν ἀνδρείαν· ὃ γὰρ ἐγὼ σοῦ ἤδη καλῶς λέγοντος ἀκήκοα, τούτῳ οὐ χρῆσθε. ΣΩ. ποίῳ δή, ὦ Νικία; ΝΙ. πολλάκις ἀκήκοά σου λέγοντος ὅτι ταῦτα ἀγαθὸς ἕκαστος ἡμῶν ἅπερ σοφός, ἃ δὲ ἀμαθής, ταῦτα δὲ κακός. ΣΩ. ἀληθῆ μέντοι νὴ Δία λέγεις, ὦ Νικία. ΝΙ. οὐκοῦν εἴπερ ὁ ἀνδρεῖος ἀγαθός, δῆλον ὅτι σοφός ἐστιν. ΣΩ. ἤκουσας, ὦ Λάχης; ΛΑ. ἔγωγε, καὶ οὐ σφόδρα γε μανθάνω ὃ λέγει. ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἐγὼ δοκῶ μανθάνειν, καί μοι δοκεῖ ἁνὴρ σοφίαν τινὰ τὴν ἀνδρείαν λέγειν. ΛΑ. ποίαν, ὦ Σώκρατες, σοφίαν; ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τόνδε τοῦτο ἐρωτᾷς; ΛΑ. ἔγωγε. ΣΩ. ἴθι δή, αὐτῷ εἰπέ, ὦ Νικία, ποία σοφία ἀνδρεία ἂν εἴη κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον. οὐ γάρ που ἥ γε αὐλητική. ΝΙ. οὐδαμῶς. ΣΩ. οὐδὲ μὴν ἡ κιθαριστική. ΝΙ. οὐ δῆτα. ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τίς δὴ αὕτη ἢ τίνος ἐπιστήμη; ΛΑ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς αὐτὸν ἐρωτᾷς, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ εἰπέτω γε τίνα φησὶν αὐτὴν εἶναι.
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-laches-en
Soc. That which enjoins endurance. And, if you please, let us too be steadfast and enduring in our inquiry, so as not to be ridiculed by courage herself for failing to be courageous in our search for her, when we might perchance find after all that this very endurance is courage. Lach. For my part I am ready, Socrates, to continue without faltering; and yet I am unaccustomed to discussions of this sort. But a certain ambitious ardour has got hold of me at hearing what has been said, and I am truly vexed at finding myself unable to express offhand what I think. For I feel that I conceive in thought what courage is, but somehow or other she has given me the slip for the moment, so that I fail to lay hold of her in speech and state what she is. Soc. Well, my dear sir, the good huntsman must follow the hounds and not give up the chase. Lach. Yes, indeed, by all means. Soc. Then do you agree to our inviting Nicias here to join in our hunt? He may be more resourceful than we are. Lach. I agree, of course. Soc. Come now, Nicias, and use what powers you have to assist your friends, who are caught in a storm of argument and are quite perplexed. You see the perplexity of our case; you must now tell us what you think courage is, and so at once set us free from our perplexity and give your own thoughts the stability of speech. Nic. Well, for some time I have been thinking, Socrates, that you two are not defining courage in the right way; for you are not acting upon an admirable remark which I have formerly heard you make. Soc. What is that, Nicias? Nic. I have often heard you say that every man is good in that wherein he is wise, and bad in that wherein he is unlearned. Soc. Well, that is true, Nicias, I must say. Nic. And hence, if the brave man is good, clearly he must be wise. Soc. Do you hear him, Laches? Lach. I do, without understanding very well what he says. Soc. But I think I understand it: our friend appears to me to mean that courage is a kind of wisdom. Lach. What kind of wisdom, Socrates? Soc. Well, will you put that question to your friend here? Lach. I do. Soc. Come now, tell him, Nicias, what kind of wisdom courage may be, by your account. Not that, I presume, of flute-playing. Nic. Not at all. Soc. Nor yet that of harping. Nic. Oh, no. Soc. But what is this knowledge then, or of what? Lach. I must say you question him quite correctly, Socrates, so let him just tell us what he thinks it is.
French
Victor Cousin · wikisource-cousin-laches-fr-01
[194a] SOCRATE. Ne parlions-nous pas de constance ? Si donc tu le veux bien, persistons avec constance dans notre recherche, afin que le courage ne vienne pas se moquer de nous, et nous accuser de ne le pas chercher courageusement, si en effet le courage est dans la constance. LACHÈS. Je suis tout prêt, Socrate, et ne me rebuterai point, quoique je sois encore novice dans ces sortes de disputes ; mais je me sens singulièrement animé à poursuivre cette discussion, et véritablement je m’irrite [194b] de ne pouvoir pas expliquer ce que je pense ; il me semble pourtant que je conçois ce que c’est que le courage, et je ne comprends pas comment il m’arrive de ne pouvoir l’exprimer. SOCRATE. Eh bien ! mon cher, le devoir d’un bon chasseur, n’est-il pas de poursuivre toujours sans lâcher prise ? LACHÈS. J’en conviens. SOCRATE. Veux-tu que nous mettions Nicias de notre chasse, peut-être sera-t-il plus heureux ? [194c] LACHÈS. Sans doute, pourquoi non ? SOCRATE. Viens donc, Nicias, viens aider, si tu le peux, des amis engagés sur une mer orageuse, et hors d’état d’avancer. Tu vois combien nos efforts sont inutiles. Dis-nous donc ce que tu penses du courage, autant pour nous tirer d’embarras, que pour te rendre à toi-même un compte plus exact de ta propre opinion. NICIAS. Je m’aperçois aussi depuis long-temps que vous ne définissez pas bien le courage. Pourquoi ne vous servez-vous pas ici de ce que je t’ai ouï dire si souvent et si bien, Socrate ? SOCRATE. Et quoi, Nicias ? [194d] NICIAS. Je t’ai souvent entendu dire, qu’on est bon dans les choses auxquelles on est habile, et mauvais dans les choses qu’on ignore. SOCRATE. Par Jupiter ! ce que tu dis là est vrai, Nicias. NICIAS. Or, si l’homme qui a du courage est bon, il est nécessairement habile. SOCRATE. As-tu entendu, Lachès ? LACHÈS. Oui, mais je ne comprends pas trop bien ce qu’il veut dire. SOCRATE. Pour moi, je crois le comprendre, il veut dire, j’imagine, que le courage est une science. LACHÈS. Quelle science, Socrate ? [194e] SOCRATE. Que ne le lui demandes-tu ? LACHÈS. C’est ce que je fais. SOCRATE. Viens donc, Nicias, et dis-lui quelle science c’est, selon toi, que le courage. Ce ne sera probablement pas celle du joueur de flûte ? NICIAS. Non. SOCRATE. Ni celle du joueur de lyre ? NICIAS. Non plus. SOCRATE. Quelle est-elle donc ; et sur quoi roule-t-elle ? LACHÈS. J’appuie ta demande, Socrate, qu’il dise quelle science c’est. NICIAS. C’est, Lachès, la science des choses qui sont à craindre et de celles qui ne le sont pas,
Concepts in this passage
Anger
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Aporia
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Courage
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Dialectic
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Duty
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Education
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Family
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Freedom
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Friendship
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Moral rightness and utility
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Human wisdom
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Justice
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Knowledge
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Law
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Messiah
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Steadfast patience
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Philosophical eros
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Probable judgment
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Reason
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Service
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Sin
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Time
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Wisdom
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