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Plato
Socrates in Plato’s Phaedrus Passage 234
Passage 8 of 53
Canonical reference 234
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-phaedrus-grc
ΦΑΙ. ἀλλʼ ἴσως προσήκει οὐ τοῖς σφόδρα δεομένοις χαρίζεσθαι, ἀλλὰ τοῖς μάλιστα ἀποδοῦναι χάριν δυναμένοις· οὐδὲ τοῖς προσαιτοῦσι μόνον, ἀλλὰ τοῖς τοῦ πράγματος ἀξίοις· οὐδὲ ὅσοι τῆς σῆς ὥρας ἀπολαύσονται, ἀλλʼ οἵτινες πρεσβυτέρῳ γενομένῳ τῶν σφετέρων ἀγαθῶν μεταδώσουσιν· οὐδὲ οἳ διαπραξάμενοι πρὸς τοὺς ἄλλους φιλοτιμήσονται, ἀλλʼ οἵτινες αἰσχυνόμενοι πρὸς ἅπαντας σιωπήσονται· οὐδὲ τοῖς ὀλίγον χρόνον σπουδάζουσιν, ἀλλὰ τοῖς ὁμοίως διὰ παντὸς τοῦ βίου φίλοις ἐσομένοις· οὐδὲ οἵτινες παυόμενοι τῆς ἐπιθυμίας ἔχθρας πρόφασιν ζητήσουσιν, ἀλλʼ οἳ παυσαμένου τῆς ὥρας τότε τὴν αὑτῶν ἀρετὴν ἐπιδείξονται. σὺ οὖν τῶν τε εἰρημένων μέμνησο καὶ ἐκεῖνο ἐνθυμοῦ, ὅτι τοὺς μὲν ἐρῶντας οἱ φίλοι νουθετοῦσιν ὡς ὄντος κακοῦ τοῦ ἐπιτηδεύματος, τοῖς δὲ μὴ ἐρῶσιν οὐδεὶς πώποτε τῶν οἰκείων ἐμέμψατο ὡς διὰ τοῦτο κακῶς βουλευομένοις περὶ ἑαυτῶν. ἴσως ἂν οὖν ἔροιό με εἰ ἅπασίν σοι παραινῶ τοῖς μὴ ἐρῶσι χαρίζεσθαι. ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι οὐδʼ ἂν τὸν ἐρῶντα πρὸς ἅπαντάς σε κελεύειν τοὺς ἐρῶντας ταύτην ἔχειν τὴν διάνοιαν. οὔτε γὰρ τῷ λαμβάνοντι χάριτος ἴσης ἄξιον, οὔτε σοὶ βουλομένῳ τοὺς ἄλλους λανθάνειν ὁμοίως δυνατόν· δεῖ δὲ βλάβην μὲν ἀπʼ αὐτοῦ μηδεμίαν, ὠφελίαν δὲ ἀμφοῖν γίγνεσθαι. ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν ἱκανά μοι νομίζω τὰ εἰρημένα· εἰ δʼ ἔτι τι σὺ ποθεῖς, ἡγούμενος παραλελεῖφθαι, ἐρώτα. τί σοι φαίνεται, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὁ λόγος; οὐχ ὑπερφυῶς τά τε ἄλλα καὶ τοῖς ὀνόμασιν εἰρῆσθαι; ΣΩ. δαιμονίως μὲν οὖν, ὦ ἑταῖρε, ὥστε με ἐκπλαγῆναι. καὶ τοῦτο ἐγὼ ἔπαθον διὰ σέ, ὦ Φαῖδρε, πρὸς σὲ ἀποβλέπων, ὅτι ἐμοὶ ἐδόκεις γάνυσθαι ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου μεταξὺ ἀναγιγνώσκων· ἡγούμενος γὰρ σὲ μᾶλλον ἢ ἐμὲ ἐπαΐειν περὶ τῶν τοιούτων σοὶ εἱπόμην, καὶ ἑπόμενος συνεβάκχευσα μετὰ σοῦ τῆς θείας κεφαλῆς. ΦΑΙ. εἶεν· οὕτω δὴ δοκεῖ παίζειν; ΣΩ. δοκῶ γάρ σοι παίζειν καὶ οὐχὶ ἐσπουδακέναι; ΦΑΙ. μηδαμῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλʼ ὡς ἀληθῶς εἰπὲ πρὸς Διὸς φιλίου, οἴει ἄν τινα ἔχειν εἰπεῖν ἄλλον τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἕτερα τούτων μείζω καὶ πλείω περὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ πράγματος;
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-phaedrus-en
Phaedrus. Perhaps, however, you ought not to grant favors to those who beg for them, but to those who are most able to repay you; and not to those who ask merely, but to the most deserving; and not to those who will enjoy your youthful beauty, but to those who will share their good things with you when you are older; and not to those who, when they have succeeded, will boast to others of their success, but to those who will modestly keep it a secret from all; and not to those who will be enamored for a little while, but to those who will be your friends for life; and not to those who will seek a pretext for a quarrel when their passion has died out, but to those who will show their own merit when your youth is passed. Do you, then, remember what I have said, and bear this also in mind, that lovers are admonished by their friends, who think their way of life is bad, but no relative ever blamed a non-lover for bad management of his own interests on account of that condition. Perhaps you may ask me if I advise you to grant favors to all non-lovers. But I think the lover would not urge you to be so disposed toward all lovers either; for the favor, if scattered broadcast, is not so highly prized by the rational recipient, nor can you, if you wish, keep your relations with one hidden from the rest. But from love no harm ought to come, but benefit to both parties. Now I think I have said enough. But if you feel any lack, or think anything has been omitted, ask questions. What do you think of the discourse, Socrates? Is it not wonderful, especially in diction? Socrates. More than that, it is miraculous, my friend; I am quite overcome by it. And this is due to you, Phaedrus, because as I looked at you, I saw that you were delighted by the speech as you read. So, thinking that you know more than I about such matters, I followed in your train and joined you in the divine frenzy. Phaedrus. Indeed! So you see fit to make fun of it? Socrates. Do I seem to you to be joking and not to be in earnest? Phaedrus. Do not jest, Socrates, but, in the name of Zeus, the god of friendship, tell me truly, do you think any other of the Greeks could speak better or more copiously than this on the same subject?
French
Victor Cousin · wikisource-cousin-phaedrus-fr-02
[234a] et qui en sont le plus dignes ; à ceux qui voudraient cueillir en passant la fleur de ta jeunesse, ceux qui à tout âge partageront avec toi leur existence ; à ceux qui ne désirent que pour se vanter d’avoir obtenu, ceux dont la fidélité saura garder ton secret ; à ceux qui une fois satisfaits chercheront un prétexte pour te haïr, ceux qui, longtemps après la saison des plaisirs, [234b] se croiront encore obligés de justifier ton estime. Pèse ces réflexions, et considère en outre que les amants sont exposés sans cesse aux remontrances de leurs amis, qui veulent les détourner d’une passion funeste. Au contraire, ceux qui n’aiment pas ont-ils jamais été réprimandés de ne pas aimer, et la tranquillité de l’âme a-t-elle jamais passé pour nuisible ? Tu me demanderas peut-être si je te conseille la même complaisance pour tous ceux qui ne sont pas amoureux : mais sans doute un amant ne t’engagerait pas non plus à traiter de même [234c] tous tes amants : car des faveurs trop partagées ne mériteraient plus la même reconnaissance, et il ne te serait plus aussi facile de les tenir secrètes. Il faut que notre intelligence ne nuise mi à l’un ni à l’autre, et nous soit utile à tous deux. Je crois en avoir assez dit pour te convaincre ; mais s’il te reste quelque objection, parle ; je suis prêt à la résoudre. » Eh bien ! que t’en semble, Socrate ? ce discours ne te paraît-il pas parfait sous tous les rapports, et aussi pour le choix des expressions ? [234d] SOCRATE. Merveilleux, mon cher Phèdre : il m’a transporté hors de moi-même. Il est vrai que tu y contribuais ; car je voyais ta joie percer en le lisant, et, persuadé que sur ces matières ton goût est plus sûr que le mien, je me suis laissé aller à ton enthousiasme. PHÈDRE. Allons, tu veux rire. SOCRATE. Quoi ! doutes-tu que je parle sérieusement ? [234e] PHÈDRE. Non, Socrate ; mais dis-moi, au nom de Jupiter qui préside à l’amitié, crois-tu qu’il y ait en Grèce un autre homme capable de parler sur le même sujet avec plus d’abondance et de noblesse ? SOCRATE. Distinguons : veux-tu louer ton auteur d’avoir dit ce qu’il devait dire, ou seulement de s’être exprimé en termes clairs, arrondis et savamment compassés ? Si tu veux le juger pour le fond des choses, je m’en rapporterai à ton avis ; car la faiblesse de mes moyens ne m’a pas permis d’apprécier
Concepts in this passage
Anger
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Beneficence
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Care of the soul
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Desire
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Elenchus
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Faith
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Family
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Intelligible forms
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Friendship
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God
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Moral rightness and utility
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Judgment
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Justice
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Knowledge
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Law
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Logos of nature
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Love
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Memory
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Mindfulness
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Mode
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Philosophical eros
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Pleasure
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Reason
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Roles and relationships
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Suffering
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Time
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Tranquillity
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Virtue
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War and peace
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