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Cicero
Orator Passage 30
Passage 30 of 238
Canonical reference 30
Latin
perseus-cicero-orator-lat
ecce autem aliqui se Thucydidios esse profitentur: novum quoddam imperitorum et inauditum genus. Nam qui Lysiam sequuntur, causidicum quendam sequuntur non ilium quidem amplum atque grandem, subtilem et elegantem tamen et qui in forensibus causis possit praeclare consistere. Thucydides autem res gestas et bella narrat et proelia, graviter sane et probe, sed nihil ab eo transferri potest ad forensem usum et publicum. Ipsae illae contiones ita multas habent obscuras abditasque sententias vix ut intellegantur; quod est in oratione civili vitium vel maximum.
English AI-generated translation, non-official
Codex gpt-5.6-sol · Non-official working translation · 2026-09-11
Yet behold, some people profess themselves followers of Thucydides, a new and unheard-of breed of the untrained. Those who follow Lysias follow a sort of courtroom advocate, not indeed broad or grand, but subtle and elegant, and able to acquit himself splendidly in forensic cases. Thucydides, however, narrates deeds, wars, and battles, with gravity and excellence certainly, but nothing from him can be transferred to forensic and public use. His speeches themselves contain so many obscure and recondite thoughts that they are scarcely intelligible, which in civic oratory is perhaps the greatest possible fault.
French AI-generated translation, non-official
Codex gpt-5.6-sol · Non-official working translation · 2026-09-11
Or voici que certains se déclarent disciples de Thucydide: espèce nouvelle d’ignorants, jamais encore entendue. Ceux qui suivent Lysias suivent du moins un avocat, qui n’est certes ni ample ni grand, mais qui reste subtil et élégant et peut admirablement tenir sa place dans les causes judiciaires. Thucydide, lui, raconte des événements, des guerres et des batailles, avec une gravité et une noblesse certaines; mais rien de son œuvre ne peut être transposé à l’usage judiciaire et public. Ses harangues mêmes contiennent tant de pensées obscures et cachées qu’on les comprend à peine, ce qui constitue peut-être le défaut le plus grave dans un discours public.
Concepts in this passage
Care of the soul
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Moral decorum
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Prayer
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Reason
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Rhetoric
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