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Plato
Socrates in Plato’s Symposium Passage 183
Passage 12 of 52
Canonical reference 183
Ancient Greek
perseus-plato-symposium-grc
ἐνθυμηθέντι γὰρ ὅτι λέγεται κάλλιον τὸ φανερῶς ἐρᾶν τοῦ λάθρᾳ, καὶ μάλιστα τῶν γενναιοτάτων καὶ ἀρίστων, κἂν αἰσχίους ἄλλων ὦσι, καὶ ὅτι αὖ ἡ παρακέλευσις τῷ ἐρῶντι παρὰ πάντων θαυμαστή, οὐχ ὥς τι αἰσχρὸν ποιοῦντι, καὶ ἑλόντι τε καλὸν δοκεῖ εἶναι καὶ μὴ ἑλόντι αἰσχρόν, καὶ πρὸς τὸ ἐπιχειρεῖν ἑλεῖν ἐξουσίαν ὁ νόμος δέδωκε τῷ ἐραστῇ θαυμαστὰ ἔργα ἐργαζομένῳ ἐπαινεῖσθαι, ἃ εἴ τις τολμῴη ποιεῖν ἄλλʼ ὁτιοῦν διώκων καὶ βουλόμενος διαπράξασθαι πλὴν τοῦτο, φιλοσοφίας τὰ μέγιστα καρποῖτʼ ἂν ὀνείδη - εἰ γὰρ ἢ χρήματα βουλόμενος παρά του λαβεῖν ἢ ἀρχὴν ἄρξαι ἤ τινα ἄλλην δύναμιν ἐθέλοι ποιεῖν οἷάπερ οἱ ἐρασταὶ πρὸς τὰ παιδικά, ἱκετείας τε καὶ ἀντιβολήσεις ἐν ταῖς δεήσεσιν ποιούμενοι, καὶ ὅρκους ὀμνύντες, καὶ κοιμήσεις ἐπὶ θύραις, καὶ ἐθέλοντες δουλείας δουλεύειν οἵας οὐδʼ ἂν δοῦλος οὐδείς, ἐμποδίζοιτο ἂν μὴ πράττειν οὕτω τὴν πρᾶξιν καὶ ὑπὸ φίλων καὶ ὑπὸ ἐχθρῶν, τῶν μὲν ὀνειδιζόντων κολακείας καὶ ἀνελευθερίας, τῶν δὲ νουθετούντων καὶ αἰσχυνομένων ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν - τῷ δʼ ἐρῶντι πάντα ταῦτα ποιοῦντι χάρις ἔπεστι, καὶ δέδοται ὑπὸ τοῦ νόμου ἄνευ ὀνείδους πράττειν, ὡς πάγκαλόν τι πρᾶγμα διαπραττομένου· ὃ δὲ δεινότατον, ὥς γε λέγουσιν οἱ πολλοί, ὅτι καὶ ὀμνύντι μόνῳ συγγνώμη παρὰ θεῶν ἐκβάντι τῶν ὅρκων - ἀφροδίσιον γὰρ ὅρκον οὔ φασιν εἶναι· οὕτω καὶ οἱ θεοὶ καὶ οἱ ἄνθρωποι πᾶσαν ἐξουσίαν πεποιήκασι τῷ ἐρῶντι, ὡς ὁ νόμος φησὶν ὁ ἐνθάδε - ταύτῃ μὲν οὖν οἰηθείη ἄν τις πάγκαλον νομίζεσθαι ἐν τῇδε τῇ πόλει καὶ τὸ ἐρᾶν καὶ τὸ φίλους γίγνεσθαι τοῖς ἐρασταῖς. ἐπειδὰν δὲ παιδαγωγοὺς ἐπιστήσαντες οἱ πατέρες τοῖς ἐρωμένοις μὴ ἐῶσι διαλέγεσθαι τοῖς ἐρασταῖς, καὶ τῷ παιδαγωγῷ ταῦτα προστεταγμένα ᾖ, ἡλικιῶται δὲ καὶ ἑταῖροι ὀνειδίζωσιν ἐάν τι ὁρῶσιν τοιοῦτον γιγνόμενον, καὶ τοὺς ὀνειδίζοντας αὖ οἱ πρεσβύτεροι μὴ διακωλύωσι μηδὲ λοιδορῶσιν ὡς οὐκ ὀρθῶς λέγοντας, εἰς δὲ ταῦτά τις αὖ βλέψας ἡγήσαιτʼ ἂν πάλιν αἴσχιστον τὸ τοιοῦτον ἐνθάδε νομίζεσθαι. τὸ δὲ οἶμαι ὧδʼ ἔχει· οὐχ ἁπλοῦν ἐστιν, ὅπερ ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἐλέχθη οὔτε καλὸν εἶναι αὐτὸ καθʼ αὑτὸ οὔτε αἰσχρόν, ἀλλὰ καλῶς μὲν πραττόμενον καλόν, αἰσχρῶς δὲ αἰσχρόν. αἰσχρῶς μὲν οὖν ἐστι πονηρῷ τε καὶ πονηρῶς χαρίζεσθαι, καλῶς δὲ χρηστῷ τε καὶ καλῶς. πονηρὸς δʼ ἐστὶν ἐκεῖνος ὁ ἐραστὴς ὁ πάνδημος, ὁ τοῦ σώματος μᾶλλον ἢ τῆς ψυχῆς ἐρῶν· καὶ γὰρ οὐδὲ μόνιμός ἐστιν, ἅτε οὐδὲ μονίμου ἐρῶν πράγματος. ἅμα γὰρ τῷ τοῦ σώματος ἄνθει λήγοντι, οὗπερ ἤρα, οἴχεται ἀποπτάμενος, πολλοὺς λόγους καὶ ὑποσχέσεις καταισχύνας· ὁ δὲ τοῦ ἤθους χρηστοῦ ὄντος ἐραστὴς διὰ βίου μένει, ἅτε μονίμῳ συντακείς.
English
Benjamin Jowett · perseus-plato-symposium-en
Consider, for instance, our saying that it is more honorable to love openly than in secret, especially when the beloved excels not so much in beauty as in nobility and virtue; and again, what a wonderful encouragement a lover gets from us all: we have no thought of his doing anything unseemly, and success in his pursuit is counted honorable and failure disgraceful; and how in his endeavors for success our law leaves him a free hand for performing such admirable acts as may win him praise; while the same acts, if attempted for any other purpose or effect to which one might be inclined, would bring one nothing in return but the sharpest reproach. For suppose that with the view of gaining money from another, or some office, or any sort of influence, a man should allow himself to behave as lovers commonly do to their favorites - pressing their suit with supplications and entreaties, binding themselves with vows, sleeping on doorsteps, and submitting to such slavery as no slave would ever endure - both the friends and the enemies of such a man would hinder his behaving in such fashion; for while the latter would reproach him with adulation and ill-breeding, the former would admonish him and feel ashamed of his conduct. But in a lover all such doings only win him favor: by free grant of our law he may behave thus without reproach, as compassing a most honorable end. Strangest of all, he alone in the vulgar opinion has indulgence from the gods when he forsakes the vow he has sworn; for the vow of love-passion, they say, is no vow. So true it is that both gods and men have given absolute licence to the lover, as our Athenian law provides. Thus far, then, we have ground for supposing that here in our city both loving some one and showing affection to one’s lover are held in highest honor. But it happens that fathers put tutors in charge of their boys when they are beloved, to prevent them from conversing with their lovers: the tutor has strict injunctions on the matter, and when they observe a boy to be guilty of such a thing his playmates and fellows reproach him, while his reproachers are not in their turn withheld or upbraided by their elders as speaking amiss; and from this it might rather be inferred that his behavior is held to be a great disgrace in Athens . Yet the truth of it, I think, is this: the affair is no simple thing; you remember we said that by itself it was neither noble nor base, but that it was noble if nobly conducted, and base if basely. To do the thing basely is to gratify a wicked man in a wicked manner: nobly means having to do with a good man in a noble manner. By wicked we mean that popular lover, who craves the body rather than the soul: as he is not in love with what abides, he himself is not abiding. As soon as the bloom of the body he so loved begins to fade he flutters off and is gone, leaving all his speeches and promises dishonored: whereas the lover of a nature that is worthy abides throughout life, as being fused into one with the abiding.
French
Victor Cousin · wikisource-cousin-symposium-fr-02
[183a] s’il s’en servait pour toute autre chose que pour se faire aimer : car, si un homme, dans le dessein de s’enrichir, ou d’obtenir un emploi, ou de se faire quelque autre établissement de cette nature, osait avoir pour quelqu’un la moindre des complaisances qu’un amant a pour ce qu’il aime, s’il employait les mêmes supplications, s’il avait la même assiduité, s’il faisait les mêmes serments, s’il couchait à sa porte, s’il descendait à mille bassesses où un esclave aurait honte de descendre, il n’aurait ni un ennemi ni un ami qui le laissât en repos : [183b] les uns lui reprocheraient sa turpitude, les autres en rougiraient et s’efforceraient de l’en corriger. Cependant tout cela sied merveilleusement à un homme qui aime ; tout lui est permis : non-seulement ses bassesses ne le déshonorent pas, mais on l’en estime comme un homme qui fait très-bien son devoir. Et ce qu’il y a de plus merveilleux, c’est qu’on veut que les amans soient les seuls parjures que les dieux ne punissent point ; car on dit que les serments n’engagent point en amour : dans nos mœurs, [183c] les hommes et les dieux permettent tout à un amant. Il n’y a personne qui là-dessus ne demeure persuadé qu’il est très louable en cette ville et d’aimer et de vouloir du bien à ceux qui nous aiment. Cependant, si l’on regarde, d’un autre côté, avec quel soin un père met auprès de ses enfants un gouverneur qui veille sur eux, et que le plus grand devoir de ce gouverneur est d’empêcher qu’ils ne parlent à ceux qui les aiment, que leurs camarades même, s’ils les voient entretenir de pareils commerces, les accablent de railleries, et que [183d] les gens plus âgés ne s’opposent point à ces railleries et ne blâment pas ceux qui s’y livrent, à examiner cet usage de notre ville, ne croirait-on pas que nous sommes dans un pays où il y a de la honte à aimer et à se laisser aimer ? Voici comme il faut accorder cette contradiction. L’amour, comme je disais d’abord, n’est de soi-même ni bon ni mauvais ; il est bon, si l’on aime selon les règles de l’honnêteté ; il est mauvais, si l’on aime contre ces règles. Or, il est déshonnête d’accorder ses faveurs à un homme vicieux pour de mauvais motifs ; il est honnête de se rendre à l’amour d’un homme qui a de la vertu et pour des motifs vertueux. J’appelle homme vicieux, cet amant populaire [183e] qui aime le corps plutôt que l’âme ; car son amour ne saurait être de durée, puisqu’il aime une chose qui ne dure point ; dès que la fleur de la beauté qu’il aimait est passée, vous le voyez qui s’envole ailleurs, sans se souvenir de ses beaux discours et de toutes ses belles promesses. Il n’en est pas ainsi de l’amant d’une belle âme : il reste fidèle toute la vie, car ce qu’il aime ne change point. Telle est donc l’opinion
Concepts in this passage
Affects
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Anger
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Beneficence
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Care of the soul
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Courage
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Moral decorum
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Duty
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Education
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Elenchus
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Ether and field
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Family
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Freedom
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Friendship
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God
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Moral rightness and utility
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Justice
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Law
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Li, ritual propriety
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Love
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Memory
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Messiah
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Nature
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Philosophical eros
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Poverty and wealth
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Reason
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Roles and relationships
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Service
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Sin
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Slavery
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Suffering
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Time
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Truth
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Virtue
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Wisdom
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